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TR2/3/3A Bleeding the Slave Cylinder

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CJD said:
Based on your description, I can't think of anything it could be outside of the clutch housing. I'm afraid the tranny will have to come off.

Bummer.

I know this is a depressing setback...just step back and have a beer to get re-oriented. You are on the home stretch...in the big picture this is just a minor setback to the many great years you will have driving your TR2!
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Thanks for that friendly advice. I have a 1932 GE frig that keeps beer at about 34 degrees, in hands reach.

Dick
 
I had a thought for confirmation. In these days of so called changing ways and technology is there a camera that will go in and look from the starter hole or the inspection plate with one of those bendy deals , real 077 stuff/
are there plane ticks also --what city--- can I bring my cat?

steve
 
I used to have one, only problem was once you got the viewer where you wanted it, the light usually went out.

Bring your cat, I have a very big screened lanai where my Ragdoll spends most of her time, she even likes a little beer every now and then..

Dick Clermont, Fl.
 
Boo Hoo indeed but look on the bright side, at least the hydraulics are all sorted and good to go.

Graham
 
Redoakboo said:
Graham,

I set everything up, pedal would go to the floor with bleeder open. When closed, the pedal goes half way down and the lever moves forward about half it's cycle.
I can;'t believe I have installed the clutch disc backwards! I have installed about 10 new clutches in; TR-2, short door, TR-3, 61 Porsche S-90, 67 911S, 57 T-bird, Karmin Ghia, and two Volkswagens. And now I install one with the disc backwards in my TR-Long Door??
O.K. Graham, John, Steve and Mike. If you guys agree I have screwed up!!!! I will take out the transmission tomorrow.

Boo Hoo, Dick
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Removed the transmission, no problems inside with disc or pins. Now I can better work on the small leaks in the OD section. I bled some of the fluid out of the SC and can now get the pedal to the floor. I feel I need to spend more time on adjustment of the slave cylinder. I am not getting the lever set up right to disengage the pressure plate and disc.

Dick
 
Well, sorry about that. All I can think of is to give a bit of information that may help in the adjustment procedure.

First, the Slave cylinder has an internal spring which is often fairly firm. So, when adjusting you must press the rod fully into the cylinder until the piston hits the solid bottom stop.

Next, the clutch arm should be floppy loose, well not floppy, but very easy to move in it's forward direction, over a range of about an inch or so. This is the area of motion where the release bearing is moving back and forth, but there is no contact with the clutch fingers. When adjusting the linkage you move the clutch arm to the rear until the play is gone, but no more force on it than that.

So...while adjusting you are using considerable force into the slave cylinder to keep the spring fully compressed. But, you are not placing any significant force on the clutch arm beyond what it takes to get it to touch the clutch fingers.

If you press hard against the clutch arm like you do against the slave cylinder, you can actually start to move the clutch fingers to release the clutch, as they are just springs too. This will give you a false setting for the adjustment.
 
CJD said:
Well, sorry about that. All I can think of is to give a bit of information that may help in the adjustment procedure.

First, the Slave cylinder has an internal spring which is often fairly firm. So, when adjusting you must press the rod fully into the cylinder until the piston hits the solid bottom stop.

Next, the clutch arm should be floppy loose, well not floppy, but very easy to move in it's forward direction, over a range of about an inch or so. This is the area of motion where the release bearing is moving back and forth, but there is no contact with the clutch fingers. When adjusting the linkage you move the clutch arm to the rear until the play is gone, but no more force on it than that.

So...while adjusting you are using considerable force into the slave cylinder to keep the spring fully compressed. But, you are not placing any significant force on the clutch arm beyond what it takes to get it to touch the clutch fingers.

If you press hard against the clutch arm like you do against the slave cylinder, you can actually start to move the clutch fingers to release the clutch, as they are just springs too. This will give you a false setting for the adjustment.
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John,

I have the transmission back in and everything connected. I have the slave cylinder so when the rod is pushed all the way in the yoke lines up with the lever, middle hole. When I pull the rod out it lines up with the lever in the other direction.

I have bled this thing to death but, when I depress the clutch down the lever moves backwards but not as far as it needs to go. If I pull the rod out, it will push the lever where it should be. My problem, there is not enough pressure to push the piston out to where it needs to be? The SC is new so the spring should be good. I am apparently not getting enough brake fluid pressure, behind the piston, to push it out all the way?? I have even put a little air pressure up at the reservoir to try a get more fluid in the SC. No Luck.

Dick

Think I have definitely reach the "Peter Principle". Dick
 
If the piston is not moving fully, then you have air in the system or a problem with the master cylinder.

If the piston is moving fully but the clutch is not operating properly, then the rod is the wrong size, the slave is on the wrong side of the bellhousing, or the adjustment is off.

This is a very simple system...the above statements fully cover the possible problems.
 
I don't follow when you say, "When I pull the rod out it lines up with the lever in the other direction". When set up properly you cannot pull the rod out.
 
CJD said:
I don't follow when you say, "When I pull the rod out it lines up with the lever in the other direction". When set up properly you cannot pull the rod out.
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John, What I meant was with the rod connected, the piston only moves enough to move the lever half of the way it should go, to move the lever where it should be. If I pull the rod out of the rubber cap,spring off, I can move it where it should be. I don't seem to have enough pressure, behind the piston, to move the rod through the complete cycle.

To get it to even move the lever the complete cycle I ended up putting the longer rod back in and locating the black plate onto the front side of the bellhousing. Up until then, the location of the SC and shorter rod would not even come close. I can now push the clutch in all the way to the floor. If the piston was moving it's full range, the lever movement would be perfect.

Dick
 
The pin is in the middle hole. The SC moves the rod about half way, goes all the way if i pull the rod out of the rubber cup. I rebuilt a fairly new MC and bought a new SC after I developed the problem. The brakes are fine. I even pulled the transmission to make sure that pin was O.K., it was?

Today I am going blow the SC piston all the way out with my air hose and rebleed to get the SC full of fluid. I did get to much fluid in the SC once, so the clutch would only go half way to the floor. If so, I will bleed again in hopes of leaving the right amount of fluid to move the rod all the way out. Dick
 
I'm at a loss for ideas. The only thing that would normally cause your symptoms is air in the system, but it sounds like you have bled as much as you can.

I wonder if there is a mis-match between the bore size of your master in relation to the slave? If the master bore is smaller in diameter it will move less fluid at a higher pressure. If the slave bore is a larger diameter than it should be, it will move less distance with higher force.
 
Perhaps the rubber hose from the metal line to the slave is expanding under pressure and you are losing the pressure there. I do not understand how you can get too much fluid in slave cylinder; are you saying that when filling SC in the rod out position that allows too much fluid in overall system and nothing comes back to rest.

Perhaps if you had a Girling larger longer SC then that slave cylinder would give you more movement, but that sounds hokie.

If you had the rod out and pressed MC does that push plunger out of the SC to the ground? What happens when everything is hooked up presumably correct and you pump the pedal like pumping weak brakes does that cheat the rod out enough? How long of rod are you using? I can measure some rods I have for a Girling system and perhaps find a base line to figure out a general length.

steve
 
sp53 said:
Perhaps the rubber hose from the metal line to the slave is expanding under pressure and you are losing the pressure there. I do not understand how you can get too much fluid in slave cylinder; are you saying that when filling SC in the rod out position that allows too much fluid in overall system and nothing comes back to rest.

Perhaps if you had a Girling larger longer SC then that slave cylinder would give you more movement, but that sounds hokie.

If you had the rod out and pressed MC does that push plunger out of the SC to the ground? What happens when everything is hooked up presumably correct and you pump the pedal like pumping weak brakes does that cheat the rod out enough? How long of rod are you using? I can measure some rods I have for a Girling system and perhaps find a base line to figure out a general length.

steve
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I have two rods, one is 3 3/4" the other is 4". To line things up I am using the long rod and installing the SC black plate on the front of the bellhousing. I have bled the SC, lot of air! I now only can produce a few bubbles. The SC is now moving the lever, but not all the way. Another problem has come up. The clutch pedal only goes down about 1/3 of the way to the floor. It is solid at this point? I can pump it up and down aand watch the lever come back and forth, about half the distance it needs to be?
 
Mine are 4 Âľ inches end to end. Like John asked, how do you adjust the rod. The directions are ambiguous kinda and could mean with the rod out or back and there is the spring question. I guess I am saying perhaps you are 180 on direction of move movement. Maybe that is why the pedal will not go to the floor.

steve
 
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