TR2/3/3A Bleeding the Slave Cylinder

[Redoakboo]

In this pic, is the piston all the way in?

In this pic, is the piston all the way in?

That's the one that came on it, and the new one is identical. The only difference seems to be the length of the rod; one is about 1" longer. It appears, in your pic, the the clutch level is almost at a 90 degrees up and down, assumes the piston is all the way in?
I will turn the cylinder around so the nipple is at the top, and will put the tag on the other end of the rod.

Hopefulyyyyyyy, it will then engage the clutch??

Dick

 

[CJD]

The position of the slave changed over the years...and is only important so that the length of the rod matches the mounting position of the cylinder.

The slave cylinder MUST be adjusted before you bleed. To adjust, the rod MUST be pushed fully into the cylinder until the piston in the cylinder is bottomed out completely. While holding the rod and piston bottomed in the cylinder, you then turn the adjuster to set the play on the link to the clutch arm. As long as you can adjust the play to the book, you are good and can move on to bleeding the cylinder. If you cannot properly adjust the rod link, then you need to change the cylinder mounting or change to a rod of the proper length.

When all is assembled and adjusted, the system will bleed itself with no pedal pumping. Just loosen the bleed valve and gravity will bleed the air out. If it does not bleed, then something is off with the slave or master cylinder adjustment/assembly.

 

[Graham H]

Dick,
You don't seem to have the spring anchor leaf washer on the leaver pivot, see my first photo. If you can find one or make one then fit the other end into the hole in the mounting bracket the spring will sit straight and have the right effect, just a thought.

Graham

 

[sp53]

I would say once you get everything fitted up correct and if gravity is not doing a good enough job, take Grahams suggestion and try bleeding by holding and pumping to get pressure. I usually do fine with the glass jar and hose. Be careful of some of those springs because they are too strong and act as steel rods. However, the problems I have seen with the spring are people using the tr2 short slave cylinder spring on a tr3 bigger salve and not the other way around. Way to hang in there Dick, many people have had this problem. But again I think gravity should do it, and yes adjust it like John suggested.

Steve

 

[Redoakboo]

I would say once you get everything fitted up correct and if gravity is not doing a good enough job, take Grahams suggestion and try bleeding by holding and pumping to get pressure. I usually do fine with the glass jar and hose. Be careful of some of those springs because they are too strong and act as steel rods. However, the problems I have seen with the spring are people using the tr2 short slave cylinder spring on a tr3 bigger salve and not the other way around. Way to hang in there Dick, many people have had this problem. But again I think gravity should do it, and yes adjust it like John suggested.

Steve

Thanks Guys,

Today I will flip the SC and reattach the spring clip to where it is supposed to be. I know you are tired of handling my problems; but I would be out of luck if it were not from the Brit Forum.
Randall got me through the restoration of my 57 TR-2, God bless his soul.

Dick

 

[sp53]

Not me Dick I enjoy helping and giving what I learned back. Yes Randall was one of the great teachers of British mechanics. Heck John basically taught me how paint cars through his teaching on the forum. I was at the lunatic fringe every time I painted. That is what forums are for to be pushed and pulled back. Evolution of the mechanical spirt, Kinda Buddhaistic, but more grease and gasoline.

 

[Redoakboo]

Ideally the bleed nipple needs to be at the top as that’s were the air will sit. you need to get the air out as it’s very compressible taking up movement potential.

Ideally the bleed nipple needs to be at the top as that’s were the air will sit. you need to get the air out as it’s very compressible taking up movement potential.

Hi Guys,

The pest is back.

I flipped the slave cylinder, put the spring tab up front and installed the shorter rod. I now have it set with the rod all the way in and the spec. clearance. I had my helper "Polly The Pedal Pusher" push up and down, with a attempt to bleed the system. I am getting alittle air up and down the tube, but I am not moving the lever at all?. The pic shows the rod bottomed out in the cylinder. I don't understand why the pic will not attach. The pic specs are the same as the earlier 3 pic's I attached?

 

[Frank_D]

As just a brief commentator on this thread, I have ben following closely. Today was start up day for my '59 TR3A (TS42756L). Before start up I was inspecting the SC. I had suspicions about the spring. I do not have a spring on my Slave Cylinder and do not remember ever having one. I have logged 50,000 miles on this babe with no issues. Should I worry about the spring?

 

[Hamish Racing]

I’m still convinced that the slave is too small.
this is your that you posted ( I think)
This is mine
1959 tr3a

 

[CJD]

Maybe I missed the thread...what was the status on your master cylinder rebuild? Weren't you the one missing a valve cup?

The next adjustment to check is that the master piston is returning completely to the snap ring when released. If the master rod is too tight, then the fluid hole is never opened, so no fluid or air can move.

 

[Redoakboo]

I’m still convinced that the slave is too small.
this is your that you posted ( I think)
This is mine
1959 tr3a

The one i removed, which came on the car, looks actually like the one I purchased from Moss?

Maybe I missed the thread...what was the status on your master cylinder rebuild? Weren't you the one missing a valve cup?

The next adjustment to check is that the master piston is returning completely to the snap ring when released. If the master rod is too tight, then the fluid hole is never opened, so no fluid or air can move.

John, You are talking about the Master cylinder clutch side piston? How can you tell if it is returning to the snap ring and if the rod is to tight?

 

[Redoakboo]

As just a brief commentator on this thread, I have ben following closely. Today was start up day for my '59 TR3A (TS42756L). Before start up I was inspecting the SC. I had suspicions about the spring. I do not have a spring on my Slave Cylinder and do not remember ever having one. I have logged 50,000 miles on this babe with no issues. Should I worry about the spring?

What keeps the clutch lever from returning to it's non-contact position, if you don't have the spring?

 

[Redoakboo]

What keeps the clutch lever from returning to it's non-contact position, if you don't have the spring?

Which of the three holes in the lever do you attach the fork? I have it in the bottom hole, the others seem to put the rod at a angle.

 

[DavidApp]

I have it in the center hole. Here is a shot of my SC to give an idea of size. Photo taken before I had the oil leak fixed.

David

 

[CJD]

Center hole is standard.

Yes, pull the boot on the master and ensure the rod from the pedal is allowing the piston to fully return. Even if the rod returns, it doesn't mean the piston is...it could be sticking, and thereby not uncovering the fluid port.

So, did you just rebuild this MC, or am I thinking of Roy?

 

[Graham H]

I started using the middle hole but as you say it sites at an angle and looks odd. The middle hole will give you more travel or disengagement of the clutch but it makes the pedal firmer to push so I moved it to the bottom hole.

Graham

 

[Redoakboo]

Center hole is standard.

Yes, pull the boot on the master and ensure the rod from the pedal is allowing the piston to fully return. Even if the rod returns, it doesn't mean the piston is...it could be sticking, and thereby not uncovering the fluid port.

So, did you just rebuild this MC, or am I thinking of Roy?

I just rebuilt the MC, the SC is new.

 

[CJD]

My old dual master was rebuilt and then sat for 4 years. Once installed it bled by gravity without a hitch. Since the SC is new and the MC is rebuilt, let's look at the other possibilities:

First, the linkage between the top of the pedal and the MC, or push rod, must be adjusted so when the pedal is released the piston can return fully forward, or outward. The port the fluid must travel through is in the final >030" of travel, so any sticking of the piston or linkage adjustment preventing the piston from FULLY returning is enough to prevent bleeding or proper operation of the clutch.

Next, have you blown air through the hard and soft line to make sure there is no blockage in the lines? A crimp in the hard line, rust in the hard line, or deterioration inside the soft line can block the flow of fluid.

Is the bleed screw opening properly? I suggest completely removing the bleed screw and see if the fluid will run out.

Finally...how are the brakes working? They share the reservoir in the double MC. Did they bleed properly? Again, the brakes and clutch will bleed easily by gravity if everything is in order. Pumping can confuse you if you do it wrong. For example: If you wife mis-understands and releases the pedal before you have the bleed closed, you will simply suck more air into the lines. To prevent confusion, I would forget about pumping and just open the bleeder and wait. Attach a clear hose into a can , and wait for the bubbles to clear. Do not open the bleeder more than 1/2 turn ever, or you will suck air past the threads, which can also confuse the situation.

If you do the above, there is nothing else to go wrong except a bad rebuild on the MC. Again, are the brakes working? On my TR2 the bleeding was a non-event. All the work was in tweeking connections for the slow leaks here and there. I have never pumped the TR@ pedal to bleed, and I bleed every year to circulate fresh fluid through the systems.

 

[sp53]

Dick has the early Lockhead slave cylinder for the tr2 they are small like. The Girling tr3a is the bigger one, say 1958; the early Girling on a tr3a has a 1 inch bore and I think the tr2 is a 1 ¼ inch bore and overall size is smaller. The 1956 tr3 used the small early Lockhead. The tr6 and perhaps the late tr4 went to 7/8 bore that looks like a tr3 in outward size. I tried a 7/8 bore for a tr6 once on a 1958 tr3 but it took a lot more pressure to push down the clutch, but the clutch worked better. I went back to an inch bore because I liked the softer pedal.

Anyways Standard Motors played with the hydraulic clutch leakage a lot and they worked, but were different. I am not sure on the rod length.

John has the small one on his tr2; I have seen pictures of Johns. Stay with it Dick, and I think John’s suggestion are spot on; his works.

 

[Redoakboo]

My old dual master was rebuilt and then sat for 4 years. Once installed it bled by gravity without a hitch. Since the SC is new and the MC is rebuilt, let's look at the other possibilities:

First, the linkage between the top of the pedal and the MC, or push rod, must be adjusted so when the pedal is released the piston can return fully forward, or outward. The port the fluid must travel through is in the final >030" of travel, so any sticking of the piston or linkage adjustment preventing the piston from FULLY returning is enough to prevent bleeding or proper operation of the clutch.

Next, have you blown air through the hard and soft line to make sure there is no blockage in the lines? A crimp in the hard line, rust in the hard line, or deterioration inside the soft line can block the flow of fluid.

Is the bleed screw opening properly? I suggest completely removing the bleed screw and see if the fluid will run out.

Finally...how are the brakes working? They share the reservoir in the double MC. Did they bleed properly? Again, the brakes and clutch will bleed easily by gravity if everything is in order. Pumping can confuse you if you do it wrong. For example: If you wife mis-understands and releases the pedal before you have the bleed closed, you will simply suck more air into the lines. To prevent confusion, I would forget about pumping and just open the bleeder and wait. Attach a clear hose into a can , and wait for the bubbles to clear. Do not open the bleeder more than 1/2 turn ever, or you will suck air past the threads, which can also confuse the situation.

If you do the above, there is nothing else to go wrong except a bad rebuild on the MC. Again, are the brakes working? On my TR2 the bleeding was a non-event. All the work was in tweeking connections for the slow leaks here and there. I have never pumped the TR@ pedal to bleed, and I bleed every year to circulate fresh fluid through the systems.

John,
The brakes work fine, bled each with pedal. I have the .030 gap set on both brakes and clutch. The lines are clear, new, and the bleed screw opens well.
The floating question is Will it work without the spring? I don't see how the lever can return, back to piston, without the spring?