TR4/4A TR4 won't start, won't turn over, nothing.

I have a 1965 TR4 that I drive on dry weekends. Last weekend, I cranked her up and took her for my weekly spin. WHen I got home to put her in the garage, I turned the ignition key to start her up...., a puff of smoke came from under the hood near the battery area, a now it's completly dead, no cranking, no nothing... Could it be a regulator or starter?

It was late at night, so I pushed her in the garage and covered her, but where do I start the trouble shooting? What could cause this?

MY tr4 url = https://www.geocities.com/joemad11/TR/tr4.htm

Thanks in advance!

The one time that happened to me on my TR-250, it turned out to be the ammeter. Basically, in the TRs, the power goes through the ammeter, so if it fries, you'll get nothing. I just wound-up connecting both wires to the same post on the back of the gauge.

It could also be a fuse. Not as sure of fuses on the TR4(and if you need me to, I can run out to the garage and look at the TR4 wiring diagram,) but on a TR3 you have one fuse that controls pretty much all things starting and running related.

Could also be the solenoid, but I would assume it's something else.

So at least check the fuses in the box, then I'd look at connecting the wires on the ammeter. Just takes a second, but make sure your battery is disconnected before you do it!!!

Hi Joe,
A couple of things. Do the headlights come on good & bright. If not check battery connections & battery charge condition. You should read about 12.5 volts on the battery if it is charged. If they do come on bright, but they dim way down when you try to start, the starter is drawing too much current. Some starters are famous for developing a dead short at the battery connection terminal inside. If the lights don't dim a bit, something is wrong with the starter or solenoid. Have your local auto parts store check the starter. Good luck,
D

Won't be a fuse -- you could pull every fuse out of the TR4 and then start it up and drive away.

If you have an original solenoid you can manually engage it by pressing the button (should be a rubber boot over that button). Be sure the car is out of gear when you try this as it (if working correctly) will crank the engine even if the ignition is off. If the solenoid works manually then the fault is either the solenoid, the ignition switch or the wiring from the switch to the solenoid (white with red stripe).

Another possibility is that the starter has jammed in the flywheel. You tell this is the case it you are unable to move the car with the gearbox in 4th (should be able to move it with difficulty as the engine turns over). If this appears to be the case leave it in 4th an rock the car backwards hard several times until the starter releases with a distinct 'pop'.

There are other possibilities but those are two I would try/eliminate before pursuing others. Let us know.

"""A couple of things. Do the headlights come on good & bright. If not check battery connections & battery charge condition. """"

I was in such a hurry that I didn't even bother to check,
so today, I get zero headlights lights, no ignition click, nothing. I got my voltmeter and I was getting 12v on my battery, so I starting checking the obvious, loose cables, fuses, etc... I retighten the battery cables, still nothing. I then removed the battery cables and sanded the battery terminals and cables. I turned on the lights, I couldn't believe it, it started right up....I was relieved and embarrassed that it was something so simple. The batteries didn't even have much crud, but I guess enough to cause the problem, I still can't believe that the problem was so simple.

My questions are, why did smoke come out of the battery compartment when this happened on Sunday?

Are there some steps that I should follow to re-hook up the cables since the car is postivie ground? What if I needed to buy a new battery, do I need to do something special to the battery so I can hook it up to the positive ground?

I'm just relived that it's running again, I just got back from another quick spin in the neighborhood.

What do I do next with this car? Do I get the oil filter adaptor kit, or do I keep it stock? If I get a white softop, is hard to install the top myself?

You guys are great, I love this place, thanks again for all your knowledge.

Joe,

I don't know what would have caused the spark...

As for hooking things back up for a positive ground car, there's nothing special. Just make sure the positive terminal is the one you hook the ground lead to and the negative lead goes to the solenoid. Same thing with a new battery. Just drop it in and hook it up (just like on a negative ground car).

I'll vouch for the spin-on adapter. They make changing the oil much, much, much easier (and much, much, much less messy).

New tops are a little bit of a pain to install. It's best to have someone who's done it before assist you, but it can certainly be done by yourself. I installed a top on my old TR6 with no prior experience (way back when I was in college). It turned out okay, but not perfect. Your TR4 top will probably be a little more difficult (more fasteners). I bought a new top for my TR4 (Amco) a couple of years ago, and pulled it out of the box to start prepping it for installation. I was shocked to see all the fasteners already in place! My immediate concern was that they wouldn't exactly match my car, but fortunately (luckily?) the top fits perfectly.

Anyway, glad to hear you're back on the road!

Hey, we're all happy when the problem turns out to be a foolish lil' thing that takes lil' time and even less money to fix.

"""I'll vouch for the spin-on adapter. They make changing the oil much, much, much easier (and much, much, much less messy)."""

I'm going to reward my self for xmas and order one from Moss. I'll need to look around in San Jose to find out who can help me with the top.

Thanks again for all your help. The forum is great.

Glad to hear your problem turned out to be something simple and easily fixed! I'd suggest getting those little green and red "donuts" that go on the battery terminals, under the connecting clamp, to prevent corrosion. A good cleaning of the battery posts and the clamps would be another thing to consider. There are also greases used to coat battery terminals, but some Vaseline works as well. All this will help prevent corrosion, which is most likely what caused your problem.

I also vote for the spin on adapter. It makes it very easy to change filters, much less messy than the cannister. If you have the Purolator head on your TR4, you need the coarse threaded adapter. If you have the later Teculmit (did I spell that right?), it uses the fine threaded adapter. Nice thing about the spin on adapter is you can just keep your original filter cannister, one or two cartridges and an extra o-ring in a drawer, and can switch it back any time. It's not a permanent modification. If you ever add an oil cooler, the spin on adapter will make that an easier installation, too. Modern spin on filters are easy to find at the local parts store. If memory serves, mine uses a Fram PH3600 or equivalent.

Email me directly if you need any help fitting that top. I'm just a couple miles from you. My best advice is to wait for a nice, sunny No. Calif. day and let the top sit out and warm up for a while, so that it's more pliable and easier to work with. Often you have to take the metal strips out of the front of the old top and slip them into the new one. All the other fasteners are sometimes installed, sometimes not.

Cheers!

Ditto on the spin-on adaptor.

I got a new TR4 top from BPNW at a very good price but did require installation. Good suggestion to get some help -- these are not difficult to install but the first time around some experience will make things go easier. Joining your local club is a good way to find some help.

+ ground is no big deal -- easy to find batteries at Wally-Mart, Costco or wherever. It's good practice to connect the ground post last -- that way if your wrench touches the engine or body while you're doing up the hot post you won't get any fireworks. FWIW, I never clamp down the ground post, just keep it clean and snug. More than once I've been thankful to be able to quickly cut the juice while under the bonnet.

You may be able to find a top with all the fittings already in place -- this is how they used to sell them. Might be worth paying more for this. BTW - it is okay to get a TR4 top with the snaps on it as all TR4s were identical in this regard. TR3 OTOH vary from one car to the next in the exact placement of the LTD pegs so you want to DIY.

As noted, if you have an old top be sure to retrieve and reuse the 3 metal stays across the front... most tops do not some with these. Repros are available but may not be the same quality or stiffness. I had to make the 2 short ones out of hacksaw blades for my 'open-air' top (no back window).

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I never clamp down the ground post, just keep it clean and snug. More than once I've been thankful to be able to quickly cut the juice while under the bonnet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second that... My stuck starter solenoid convinced me to install a cut-off switch on the ground terminal. Scrambling around to find a 1/2" wrench to disconnect the battery with the starter motor cranking away is no fun.

Try it when the car is in gear!

Had the car in 4th and rocking it backwards to free a stuck starter, the starter popped loose and I found I also had a stuck solenoid. At this point the car was lurching towards a concrete wall 4' away. Wanted to pull that ground cable off but had to wait until the left front tire was thru running over my foot. An exciting 1.5 seconds.

[ QUOTE ]
Try it when the car is in gear!

Had the car in 4th and rocking it backwards to free a stuck starter, the starter popped loose and I found I also had a stuck solenoid. At this point the car was lurching towards a concrete wall 4' away. Wanted to pull that ground cable off but had to wait until the left front tire was thru running over my foot. An exciting 1.5 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll have to forgive me Geo, but I had a good laugh off this at your expense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You've also convinced me to loosen up my ground.

I hate to be a stick in the mud , but the puff of smoke from under the bonnet is a concern. Our TR4A carries a fire extinguisher right behind the seats.
Is the wiring brittle?
Might look and feel around wire harness, you never know.
Good old Lucas.

thank you all for the great suggestions, from getting a soft top with buttons to leaving the ground wire snug, and getting the fire extingisher.

Just getting my first TR4, this entire thread has been a serious education. I will also be getting a fire extinguisher