TR6 Up-date to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

[Brosky]

Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Based on Casey's post in my prior thread, this is what I've found.

Update: The alternator info for 72 Amp mentioned by .

Company info https://www.elreg.com

Picture of suspect https://www.elreg.com/product/772.aspx

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Brand New Lucas part number, less pulley LEA0057</span>

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Price $115.71 FOB Buffalo, NY
</span>
The sales rep is sending me case measurements to confirm the alternator will fit, but is sure looks it to me.

This is listed in their heavy duty, industrial alternator section. That makes me wonder if there is any static supression built in? I'd hate to listen to a high pitched whine all day.

I think this will require some wiring updates, at least the lead from the alternator to the starter, but if it's a bolt on with no modifications to brackets or harness, it's a no brainer.

I don't readily see the (+) male terminal that's above my (3) connector and the little black box isn't on this one. I've never had one of these apart, so I don't know what's inside that little unit.

 

[tomshobby]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Paul, are you considering replacing your new Bosch with this? If so is it because of the new electric fan?

 

[martx-5]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

That little black box on the outside of the Bosch unit is the regulator. It also contains the brush holder assembly. Most Lucas units have the regulator contained internally, so you don't see it from the outside. Make sure that unit is internally regulated. Also, the radio noise supression is handled by a capacitor. Those are usually internal, and have generally been incorporated in all alternators since day one...but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Edit: Why do you need 72 amps?? That's alot of current. I can't fathom why any TR would need more then about 55-60 amps. That's with the electric fan, the blower for the defrost, wipers, all lights, and the ignition system going.

 

[Brosky]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

OK Art & Tom, here is my thought process. The Spal 16" fan (ala TR6 Bill) draws 21 amps on startup and levels at 17. I will have my halogen bulbs on in the PL700's at night and whatever else may be running, like heater fan, etc. I do drive with the top down when it's cold outside and keep the heater running. I also drive with my lights on in the day time as a matter of habit.

I thought that the halogens may push it over the edge. I will be installing the Dan Masters headlamp relay package for the lights.

Agree/Disagree? I'm open for suggestions.

Art, I expressed concern about the capacitor as this was listed on the HD side and not all commercial (farm, industrial) have the same components as automotive.

I posted this as information for all. I really don't want to spend another $115 + if I don't have to.

 

[TR3driver]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

I'm with Art, don't think you need that much.

Unless there's something you're not telling us, like the 300,000 candlepower driving lights or the stereo that can be heard in the next county.

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Anyway, I got by just fine with a 55 amp (nominal) Ford alternator in my TR3A, with 100 watt halogen headlights, 16" Hayden fan, and a loud stereo (has to be loud to hear it on the freeway).

 

[tomshobby]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Paul, not questioning your choice, just wondering how you came to it. Like Randall, I think it might be somewhat more than needed. I think of all the new cars on the road with the same kinds of components and air conditioning besides.

 

[LastDeadLast]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Paul,

I'm running the Bosch alternator with no problems. I've got same accessories that you've got too. I'd only buy the other if you have problems with keeping a charge (You've already bought the Bosch right?).

Why spend the money if you don't have to?

 

[Guest]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Paul, consider talking to an expert on alternators, perhaps from a shop that does a high quality rebuild. When I took my AutoZone unit it to such a shop for what I thought was a whining noise, they replaced the bearing with some superior quality USA-built ones (at least that was stamped on the bearing) to replace the Chinese units it came with. I asked them to give me an opinion about the rest of the alternator and they maintained that it was as good as it gets. They also bench tested it to determine that it indeed cranked out 69 amps instead the posted 66 amps. He said that this is normal for a unit to show more than it is supposed to. Anyway, catch someone who knows these units and ask lots of questions. I don't feel that 70+ plus amps is too much, especially if you wire it with higher gauge wire (er, thicker, not higher). I wired mine directly to the battery.

 

[martx-5]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

The only way to really know is to add up the wattage of all the items you will be running. At 14 volts and 72 amps, you have 1000+ watts available. The fan, which draws 17 amps (x14 Volts) = 238 watts. Add up the rest of the constant use watts, and you'll know. I would discount temporary use items such as brake lights and directionals etc. Just remember, the the original TR6 alternator only put out about 30 amps, or less then half the wattage as you're looking at, yet it managed to run everything in the car at the time. My Miata has all the things you are going to be running, plus an electric fuel pump, A/C, electronic fuel injection and a number of other electronic gizmos...yet it runs fine on a 60 amp alternator.

 

[Brosky]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Bill,

I think that I confused the situation. I apologize if I did. I don't have any issues with my "new" Bosch installation. It (and my old locally rebuilt Lucas) work just fine.

I mentioned the "whining" only because I thought that if this were an industrial unit, less a capacitor for static suppression, that I might have a whining while driving and listening to the radio.

I just thought that this would solve any power issues, but if the consensus is that the 55 amps will be fine, then I can always replace it later if there's a problem with the 55 amp unit charging enough. Actually, now that I think about it, it was Bill at Ron Davis Radiators that suggested getting an alternator with a higher output than 55 amps.

 

[Brosky]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Paul, not questioning your choice, just wondering how you came to it. [/QUOTE]

Tom, so far I really like what I have. If Casey hadn't posted the picture of the 72 amp earlier and if I wasn't trying to kill an hour at the office waiting for some return calls this morning, I never would have had time to dig into this other option.

I think that my new 55 amp will be fine. If not, I know where to get a bigger charger.

What was that old expression, "Idle time is the devil's workshop"? I should have stayed busy this morning!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonono.gif

 

[piman]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Hello Paul,

that fan is very high wattage?. But how often will it be running (if at all, when it is cold and you have the heater on). My electric fan only runs in slow traffic in summer and then it switches in and out.
No real problem with such a large alternator as long as the cables are also uprated. You realise at full load that alternator requires 1 1\2 to 2 HP to drive it (depending on losses)

Alec

 

[RobT]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

The original wiring is only designed for the 37(?)Amp Lucas alt. Plonking in a 70+Amp alt could overstress the good ol' Lucas wires a bit, and the ammeter (35A I think?) too. An upgrade to some of the wires might be a good idea if going the full monte on an alternator.

Rob.

 

[Brosky]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

I'm gonna hang at 55 for now. If I need it later, I'll get it down the road.

 

[Opa]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

hey all I think I should clarify my original post some what.

Paul, I am in no way questioNing you're decision of alt. choice or anybody else's choice for that matter. My question was has anybody used or looked into a higher output Lucas unit that uses the same mounting,wiring etc as OEM,.nothing more intended or implied.I'm sure one is as good as the other as my original has been making juice for 18 years and a little over 80000 miles,like a Timex, keeps on going.

Being that I live in an area which is mainly agricultural, I have seen many tractors with Lucas alternators with identical units as on TR'S up to about 55 amp.International Harvester,Nuffeild, Massey Fergusion to name a few , and many industrial unit's. Some the front housing would have to be clocked to fit.
On the road you would never be stuck for an Alt. if the Napa Store does'nt have one for TR6,Just ask him to look up a afore mentioned tractor that had Lucas on it.Most parts books will tell you what it had.BTW Bosch was also used on aforementioned rigs.Why you ask,just like your car units interchangeable.
PIMAN i agree with you in that the 72 amp. alt. requires a bit more to turn but that would only be at it's max output which for all intese and purpose would likely be short term,as in a stone dead battery,or many driving lites have been added, along with a 500amp boom box or towing a mobile travel trailer,which for most of us is unlikely.But there again if OEM cooling fan is removed from crankshaft you would gain probaly 4-5 hp leaving you a net gain of 2hp.
Rob T
as to the original wiring IMO not that big a deal on the late cars with a volt meter,again if the vehicle is basically stock with the addition of a fan and a set of driving lights.On the the early cars with an ammeter I would be some what hesitant to run that kind of amperage thru the gauge even short term.
Just for comparison sake have a look at a late model domestic automobile and compare wire size,not that much difference,and most of your domestic well equiped cars run an ALT. of 100 + amps, that's what's on my wife's Pontiac GranPrix GTP.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion.

 

[poolboy]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Am I mistaken, but doesn't an alternator produce only the amps that is called for as opposed to a generator?

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Am I mistaken, but doesn't an alternator produce only the amps that is called for as opposed to a generator?

Both generators and alternators are on demand devices and provide power as needed.

 

[LastDeadLast]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Poolboy,

You are correct. The problem.. in the case of our 30 year old + wiring is that it wasn't designed for the out put of a newer alternator if your battery is drained. So unless you upgrade the wiring, you run the risk of melting your electrical system.

 

[poolboy]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

LDL, I sure can't afford for that to happen!!

 

[martx-5]

Re: Update to Bolt On 72 amp Alternator for TR6

Poolboy,

You are correct. The problem.. in the case of our 30 year old + wiring is that it wasn't designed for the out put of a newer alternator if your battery is drained. So unless you upgrade the wiring, you run the risk of melting your electrical system.

The output of the alternator is going back to charge the battery...that is the only part of the wiring that needs to be upgraded with a heavier gauge wire. The extra amps are going to charge the battery. If you change any other items in the car, such as higher wattage lights, then that wiring has to also be upgraded. You don't have to upgrade the whole system, only those parts that are affected by equipment changes you make in the car. For high wattage items, relays are best, as the original switches can't handle the increased amps. Of course, there is some debate about whether the original wiring and switch gear was even adequate when the car was new! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif