TR6 TR6 Clutch cross shaft

[hondo402000]

without climbing under my TR6, whats the Outside Diameter of the clutch shaft? was thinking of installing caged needle bearings instead of bushings like Goodparts sells, looks like mcmasters carr sells them, I was thinking the shaft should be 0.750 OD?

Hondo

 

[tomshobby]

Hi Hondo,
Caged bearings might not be the best answer. The reason is that if they only rock back and forth in a limited area instead of rotating they might be prone to wear where the rollers are always in contact which would result in ridges.

 

[martx-5]

And, if you go with the earlier long bushings with grease fittings, you should not experience any problems in that area.

Plus the fact that you will have to ream out the trans housing to fit the bearings.

 

[hondo402000]

Hey Tom
I understand your point of view, and I do know needle bearings and roller bearings are meant to rotate a full 360 degrees and they are rated for 1000 pounds radial loading. Seems they would over time get a wear pattern in them but as long as they continued the same 1/4 turn it might not matter? I did see McMasters carr had some bronze bushings that had graphite plugs in them, Lots of choises but I have till the fall to decide what route to go, If I stick with bushings I wont have to drill the housing.

Points to ponder
Hondo

 

[TR3driver]

was thinking of installing caged needle bearings

Why??

The long bronze bushings (as used on one side of the earlier cars, readily available from the usual suspects) will basically last forever as long as they get a little grease now and again. And if you do manage to get some wear in them (likely from not greasing at least once in awhile), they are just as readily replaced.

Caged needles also really hate dirt and grit, so be sure to figure out how you are going to seal them, on BOTH sides.

 

[hondo402000]

they do have single sealed caged bearings, double sealed and no seals, so that is a non issue too. Hey maybe I can put both bushings and caged bearings on each side !

 

[cheseroo]

I figured the other guys on here would have talked you out of this by now but you seem bound and determined to go this route. Good luck to you but I'm afraid this is going to have a unhappy ending. I just can't see any upside to a caged bearing. If this fails you have now junked your trans case. I can understand going to bronze bushings if you have a car without them but anything beyond that doesn't make sense to me. I'm all for upgrading when possible but I'm not so sure caged bearings are going to be an upgrade in this situation.

 

[hondo402000]

I am far from being bound and determined to put caged bearings in, but I do see graphite impreginated bronze bushings might be a good alternative, remember its been 39 years since these cars were built so wouldnt you think there is something better has come along in 39 years??? I think technology has progressed but if needle bearings are a bad idea then why do they put needle bearings in U joints they dont rotate either, I am guessing bushings are much cheaper than needle bearings and wouldnt they have major failures in U joints if they were a bad Idea? they used them then and they still use them now much more action and pressure in u joints than a clutch operation,

Ponder that guys

Hondo

 

[cheseroo]

Not to be argumentative but let's discuss the point that things have progressed in 39 years. Here's how I look at it. Let's take lug nuts as an example. You can buy shouldered grade 8 lug nuts today that may not have been available or installed in these cars 39 years ago. Would it improve the car to make this change? Probably. Is there really a need to change out all my lug nuts? Is it worth machining the wheels to install the improved lug nuts? Not really on both counts.

As far as needle bearings working fine in u-joints, u-joints have zerk fittings for greasing them and they will fail if you do not grease them. The sealed ones just don't seem to last as long. One foot behind the cross shaft in the TR6 trans are some needle type bearings on each end of the countershaft. Guess what fails first in the TR3/4/6 trans?

The way I view it is that the bosses the cross shaft rides in is probably the least worrying thing in the clutch. If you want to suggest an improvement to the T/O bearing, clutch fork or trans front cover/Throwout bearing carrier then you'd receive lots of love from the enthusiasts. In looking at this project overall, I just don't see how the level of expended effort will pay off in any sort of improvement when the original works pretty darn good. If the cross shaft was never lubricated and the bellhousing boss is worn out, I'd just install the wide bushings and be done with it. I'm willing to bet that you will never need to do that repair again as long as you live. If something lasts beyond my lifetime I'd hope I'm remembered for something more than my improved cross-shaft layout. There has got to be some other area that this car that could benefit from your well intentioned efforts and thought than this one.

I say this with a heart full of love

 

[hondo402000]

Hey Rich I take your view point as good insite, thats why we are here to ask questions get personal imput and either continue down the path or not. But if I did do caged needle bearings they would be double sealed and set up to be greased, as far as the needle bearings in the tranny, again now there might be a better solution. and you know what my car sees all of 3000 miles a year if its lucky. so no matter which way I go its not like its going to wear out any time soon

but I like getting things going and opinions flying

Its raining opinions

Hondo