TR4/4A TR4 Lacks Spark!

[GS1776]

Hello All! I have a 1964 TR4 that's I saved from a warehouse where she sat since 1986! Great shape and I've been going through all of the top level items and I'm ready to turn her over. I've connected a battery, updated the condenser, low voltage lead, plugs, wires, rotor and cap. She will spin and I rebuilt the fuel line from the tank forward and she has good fuel to the carbs. To ensure it wasn't the carb's, I shot it with some starting fluid and still no kick (although, I could have sworn it kicked for a single rotation and then nothing). I placed the engine at top dead center and looking at the valves what I thought was cylinder one. But then when I checked the rotor it looks like its pointing to three? I do have 12v to the coil and I'm on new coil number two per a recommendation. I am now sitting looking at a new distributor fully built and ready to install but would like to keep the original as the vehicle was a single owner and she's still the way she left GB! Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm no expert and have a long way to go as a mechanic but I can find my way. Again, thank you and I appreciate the help, would love to get her on the road this season!

 

[NutmegCT]

GS - welcome to BCF.

Pull a plug, leave the wire connected, and hold the tip (wear a glove!) near the block. Do you see a spark when you try to start the engine?

Also, is fuel reaching the cylinders? (wet spark plug tip after cranking)

Tom M.

 

[Sarastro]

I hope that an oil change was among the things you did to it.

If you think you are at TDC on #1 but the rotor is pointing to cylinder 3, you have the distributor installed wrong or maybe you're really at TDC on the exhaust stroke of #1. At TDC on the compression stroke, both valves should be closed. Make sure that you really are on #1 TDC, and reinstall the distributor if it's not right.

Also make sure the plug wires are right. And check the points with a test light to make sure they are closing and opening properly. People get them installed wrong frequently.

Anyway, my major suggestion is to check things out systematically. Make sure the ignition is set up right, and if it still won't start, go on the the fuel system. Don't just wander around trying things randomly.

 

[GS1776]

GS - welcome to BCF.

Pull a plug, leave the wire connected, and hold the tip (wear a glove!) near the block. Do you see a spark when you try to start the engine?

Also, is fuel reaching the cylinders? (wet spark plug tip after cranking)

Tom M.

Tom,
Thank you, I've done that and I put a light between the distributor and the spark plug in case my old eyes missed the spark and nothing for both unfortunately.

 

[Trevor Triumph]

Remember, check the easy things first. I should think no bang with the starter fluid would indicate ignition timing problem, I would think. Still make sure there is fuel in and out of the carbs, as suggested. The distributor business can be really fiddly dialing in the proper cog is tough.

T.T.

 

[GS1776]

I hope that an oil change was among the things you did to it.

If you think you are at TDC on #1 but the rotor is pointing to cylinder 3, you have the distributor installed wrong or maybe you're really at TDC on the exhaust stroke of #1. At TDC on the compression stroke, both valves should be closed. Make sure that you really are on #1 TDC, and reinstall the distributor if it's not right.

Also make sure the plug wires are right. And check the points with a test light to make sure they are closing and opening properly. People get them installed wrong frequently.

Anyway, my major suggestion is to check things out systematically. Make sure the ignition is set up right, and if it still won't start, go on the the fuel system. Don't just wander around trying things randomly.

Sarastro,

Oil change completed, as well as all other fluids, thank you for the reminder! I have not removed the original distributor and replaced wires one at a time as I wanted to start as I found it. To clarify, if I'm at TDC, cylinder 1 (closest to the radiator) should have both valves closed so I should have little or no wiggle on either. If this is the case, the rotor should Point to 3 (Pointing to the back right as you're looking at the distributor) or should the rotor be pointed at 1? Sorry if this is a lame question but want to ensure that I'm not off. Thank you!

 

[GS1776]

Remember, check the easy things first. I should think no bang with the starter fluid would indicate ignition timing problem, I would think. Still make sure there is fuel in and out of the carbs, as suggested. The distributor business can be really fiddly dialing in the proper cog is tough.

T.T.

T.T., The car has two Strombergs, its a 64' and I would have assumed that it would have been fitted with SU's. I did check the carbs and ensured that they were functioning correctly. I've also ordered a rebuild kit to ensure that they're in good condition since the car sat for so long.

 

[pdplot]

Are the points set properly (.012-.015) and are they opening and closing? With ignition on and points closed, open them with a screwdriver. There should be a spark.

 

[GS1776]

Are the points set properly (.012-.015) and are they opening and closing? With ignition on and points closed, open them with a screwdriver. There should be a spark.

pdplot,

Thank you, I did set the points but I did not check for spark. I'm on it in the morning! Thank you

 

[NutmegCT]

Tom,
Thank you, I've done that and I put a light between the distributor and the spark plug in case my old eyes missed the spark and nothing for both unfortunately.

Just to make sure we understand, are you saying there is *no* spark at the plug, and there is *no* fuel entering the cylinder?

Thanks for keeping us informed of your work!

 

[Mickey Richaud]

You said you replaced the condenser; did you replace the points as well? Check to be sure the mounting post on the points is insulated properly. There should be a couple of nylon spacers to keep the points separated from ground. And make sure the ground wire inside (part #5 here - > Ignition/Distributor - Ignition - Electrical & Ignition - Triumph TR2, 3, 4 | Moss Motors < - is in good shape as well.

Good luck!

Mickey

 

[Tr6easyrider]

This no spark issue happen a couple of days ago to a fellow over on the Triumph Experience site.
As Mickey suggest, check the sequence of your points install. See post #10

[Solved] 1973 TR6 No spark. Looking for suggestions. : TR6 Tech Forum : The Triumph Experience

Hello, Looking for help with a recent issue with no spark at all. 1973 TR6. Trying to get it back on the road after fixing a significant leak between transmission and overdrive. Worked on other things as well while waiting for parts. Forgive me if this long, but trying to give some b

www.triumphexp.com

 

[Sarastro]

If you have the engine at TDC on the compression stroke, both valves on #1 are closed, so there should be some slack in both the rockers for those valves. The distributor rotor should be at the #1 position. If it's not, there's your problem. Or, one problem, at least. This has to be fixed, even if there are other problems to deal with.

 

[charlie74]

I had my engine die on me once and it was as though someone turned the ignition switch off. I had had the distributor out just prior to that and when I reinstalled it i either didn’t seat it properly or did not secure it properly. It had been in well enough to get me to a hardware store about 15 miles from home before it popped out of the drive slot though. With the cap off you could crank the engine and make sure that the rotor turns as it should. Just a thought and an easy check to do…
good luck!

 

[GS1776]

You said you replaced the condenser; did you replace the points as well? Check to be sure the mounting post on the points is insulated properly. There should be a couple of nylon spacers to keep the points separated from ground. And make sure the ground wire inside (part #5 here - > Ignition/Distributor - Ignition - Electrical & Ignition - Triumph TR2, 3, 4 | Moss Motors < - is in good shape as well.

Good luck!

Mickey

Mickey,

The ground wire is in rough shape and may be the issue but not discounting the other reccomandations in this thread as well. I plan to replace this wire later today. Thank you!

 

[GS1776]

I had my engine die on me once and it was as though someone turned the ignition switch off. I had had the distributor out just prior to that and when I reinstalled it i either didn’t seat it properly or did not secure it properly. It had been in well enough to get me to a hardware store about 15 miles from home before it popped out of the drive slot though. With the cap off you could crank the engine and make sure that the rotor turns as it should. Just a thought and an easy check to do…
good luck!

Charlie74,

Thank you, top off the rotor does spin.

 

[GS1776]

If you have the engine at TDC on the compression stroke, both valves on #1 are closed, so there should be some slack in both the rockers for those valves. The distributor rotor should be at the #1 position. If it's not, there's your problem. Or, one problem, at least. This has to be fixed, even if there are other problems to deal with.

Sarastro,

I'm going to check this again, it seemed as if when b both valves were closed the rotor was not pointing to number 1 but number 3? If this is the case, I'll adjust accordingly and then the old ground wire may need a swap as well. Thank you, I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[GS1776]

You said you replaced the condenser; did you replace the points as well? Check to be sure the mounting post on the points is insulated properly. There should be a couple of nylon spacers to keep the points separated from ground. And make sure the ground wire inside (part #5 here - > Ignition/Distributor - Ignition - Electrical & Ignition - Triumph TR2, 3, 4 | Moss Motors < - is in good shape as well.

Good luck!

Mickey

Mickey Richaud,

I did replace the points and did not see the nylon spacers, I'll go back to the pack and see if I missed those. Thanks!

 

[poolboy]

Here's how it goes :

 

[LarryK]

Check tolerance between rotor and cap and center graphite contact in cap. Sometimes new isn't always correct.