TR2/3/3A Terminally Underwhelmed at Moss Motors

[doc50]

Whoa, what a disappointment I got today. Ordered a bunch of things last week from Moss. Told the guy VERY SPECIFICALLY that I would pick up the order right in Goleta today, the 25th.

Imagine my consternation when, after driving 200 miles out of my way (as part of a larger motorhome adventure), I bopped into the show room to have the flat-affect, totally unconcerned counter guy tell me that my order 'does not exist'.
My order list is at home so I couldn't even reproduce the order.

Any one else have such a weird experience with a supplier? I have bought EVERYTHING for my recent complete restoration from Moss but today told me they are losing it.

(Coincidentally, I am now TRF's newest customer).

Thom
1959 TR3
#TS34909L(O)

 

[Geo Hahn]

Apparently a mistake was made -- but if I stopped buying from a vendor because they didn't meet my expectations... I would not have anyone left to deal with.

 

[TR3driver]

Yes, oddly enough I've had that exact experience with Moss (except it was closer to 300 miles round-trip for me to the old warehouse on Hollister).

Shortly after I started driving Stag #1 to work every day, I discovered that it needed a new front brake hose in a bad way. Called Moss, was told "We don't carry anything for Stags". Called around a few local shops, one over in San Pedro said they had one on the shelf. Turned out they had the wrong hose in the box, but while the guy was getting the box off the shelf, I picked up the dealer version of the Moss catalog ... which had a listing for it! So I wrote down the number and called them again. "Oh, you're working on a Stag, huh? Yes, we've got those in stock."

So, I ordered a pair, and paid a huge price for "expedited" shipping even though their warehouse is only 150 miles or so away. I also called up Rimmers in the UK and ordered an entire front/rear set in Teflon/SS braid, which cost less with shipping than the pair of stock front hoses from Moss. Guess which ones showed up at my doorstep first !!

Then there was the time I had argued with Moss several times over the space of a year or two, because their spin-on oil filter conversion does not fit early TR3s. (At that time, they had two conversions, which together were supposed to cover the full range TR2-4A.) On the final go-round, I walked into their showroom with both the conversion that didn't fit, and the filter head that it didn't fit. The salesman told me "We've never had any complaints." !! And declined to even look at the filter head I brought to show why neither conversion could ever fit it.

Like Geo, I've had disappointments with other vendors, certainly none of them are perfect. And I know Peter A. and Kelvin D. at Moss try hard to keep their Triumph customers happy. But I've been a much happier customer, on average, since I started buying primarily from TRF.

 

[trrdster2000]

Moss lost me after spending thousands of dollars on mine and other friends cars over $4.30. They left out of a order two head light clips for the Roadster on a large order. The clerk acted like it was not big deal and was adamant the shipping was going to be $9.85. At the time I asked him if he was going to loose a good customer over this, "Suit yourself" was the answer. I did.

Wayne

 

[CJD]

For just your reason, I do not drive to any store if I can avoid it. I'd much rather take care of the enevitable mistakes from the comfort of my own living room. With all my poor experiences I would not dream of driving 200 miles unless the clerk told me he has the order in his hand and waiting. The modern suppliers are no longer set up for the pleasant "Mom and Pop" experience we had as kids...although some of those experiences weren't so great either as I think about it! Margins are now so low that no supplier stocks everything in their catalogues. They frequently drop ship to you from another supplier.

So, sorry for your experience. I too don't know how you can write off one of our only remaining suppliers. There are items that are only available from them...unless you have a year or two for them to pop up on EBay.

 

[TR3driver]

There are items that are only available from them...unless you have a year or two for them to pop up on EBay.

Do you know of any examples? Pretty much every time I've ordered from them because the other suppliers were out of stock, it turned out that they didn't have the part either, they just wouldn't admit it until they had my order.

The OD accumulator spring was especially entertaining (although I ordered through a Moss distributor rather than Moss directly). Not in stock, didn't know when they would get them in. I let the backorder ride. When the spring finally did come in months later, they changed the part number and doubled the price! And refused to honor the price on my backorder. The distributor even got a bit snippy that I canceled the order after the price doubled. "You should have told me sooner."

Oh, and again, the one I ordered from the UK got here first, at a total cost less than what Moss wanted with shipping.

 

[glemon]

I had a similar situation to Trrdster2000 a year ago or so, when I ordered some parts which were picked up by Phil Jaegerling (sp?) in California for a rear hub rebuild, I ordered (and paid for) a couple other things that weren't needed for the hub rebuild, small parts too, just a few bucks. When I figured out they didn't get picked up I contacted Moss a couple weeks later, they sent them no questions, no shipping charges no problem.

I did have a less than stellar experience with them on another part, the oil pump strainer for my Healey 100, it was not made right and interfered with the oil pan when you tried to fit it, I discovered this of course at the end of a long engine rebuild, and it delayed getting that project done for a few weeks. I of course ordered the thing long before I figured out the issue, and I tried to fix it myself, but decided that wasn't the way to go, so it wasn't a question of return so much as a question of letting them know about getting the part right in the future, they did not seem the least bit interested.

But overall I am happy that we have Moss and TRF and Victoria British competing for my parts business. My brief adventure into old BMWs showed me how good we have it, nobody makes a comprehensive catalog for the old 2002s despite their being a pretty popular collector hobby car. To find and order parts you generally have to find a factory parts diagram, get the factory number, and then cross reference it to what the vendor offers. Not the end of the world, but it made me realize we have it pretty good.

 

[CJD]

Do you know of any examples?

Off hand, no. But you have to remember I've got a 24" stack of receipts after all my restorations. I have had situations where a part is only available from any one of the big three. Also, all three have left me on infinite back order at some point...I assume as they look for a fresh vendor. I have been incredibly upset at all three at different times too. I've gotten wrong parts, poor quality parts, broken parts...from all 3.

As mad as I've been, I don't have the luxury of bidding any of them farewell.

 

[martx-5]

I've had my share of problems dealing with the vendors that we buy from, but mostly due to back orders of poor quality merchandise, not because of unconcerned personnel. I don't know if this is a recent phenomena at Moss, but in the past while going through my restoration several years ago, the people at Moss have always been very courteous, competent and helpful.

Several years back, one of the guys in our local club had a problem with a windscreen for his TR3B that he bought from Moss. He had bought it with a mess of other parts (he was doing a total restoration) and didn't get around to installing it in the frame until over a year after purchase. When he pulled it out the box it had a crack in one of the lower corners and was big enough to be unusable. He said that he just "looked" in the box when it arrived and didn't see anything and closed it back up. I told him to call Moss and explain the situation and maybe they will help you. Well, he called and emailed them a picture and Moss told him that they would send him a new windscreen if he just paid for the shipping...and don't bother shipping the cracked one back. I have to admit that I was a little taken aback by what Moss did, but this is a true story.

Maybe today things are different at Moss. If so, that's a shame because I've always had nothing but good relations with them.

Now if they would only do something about their high cost of shipping when all you need is a nickel-dime item.

 

[Brinkerhoff]

I'll stick with Moss thank you. They aren't the only business that struggles with customer service issues but they are the primary reason I enjoy the ownership and restoration of these cars.

 

[PeterK]

I've had the least problem from Moss as far as product quality. I've received NOS from VB twice, yes true Stanpart marked NOS parts, and repro parts so poorly made from TRF which I had to pay return shipping, which btw is the worst when I have to pay shipping both ways because of a bad product. Sometimes TRF has the part I need but I've got to not trust the quality from previous purchases, so I order from elsewhere if I can. It became a crap shoot as far as what I received. eg: got TR3 door latches that weren't made correctly and the screws didn't recess far enough so the doors wouldn't close. Moss has always shipped promptly and has had mostly good quality products, although they have had their share of problems once in a while too. Case in point was the TR3 master cylinder Classic Parts where the mfg skimped i-on the size of the plunger rod and Moss never knew until a BCF member brought it to their attention. When I first ordered from VB, I found that if I ordered two of an item, they shipped two similar, maybe sourced differently parts. Can't remember which pats but it amused me as it happened more than once. But never received junk parts from VB like from one of the other vendors. And never had a infinite back-order. I'm just glad that we have these 3 vendors to keep each other in check.
The best parts are the original parts so I rebuild, re-manufacture everything that I can and rely on used parts when possible.

 

[ShawnC_at_Moss]

Hi Thom,
Obviously we screwed this one up good. I have had our Sales Manager go through the system and see what happened. He has some answers for you and he would like to send you an email with an explanation.

I hope we can make things right and it's not too late.

The email address we have on file for you keeps bouncing. Could you email me your current email address to shawn@mossmotors.com and I will pass it along.

Thank you,

Shawn

 

[2long]

I have been pretty happy with Moss, and appreciate that they monitor this forum. They seem willing to address issues as they arise, like the classic gold line of products. I hope that they are working on identifying weak areas like the quality of rubber components that plague all the providers. I think their prices are very competitive, but I also think lots of folks would pay a premium for the highest quality available.

dan

 

[PatGalvin]

Moss has been extremely helpful when it comes to returns. I bought the little "L" brackets that tie together the bottom and top of the windscreen frame. The "L" bracket screws were phillips and sat proud of the bracket, such that I could not slide the lower rubber seal through the windscreen slot. I called them and they said "send them back and we'll credit you right away". Which I did and they did. No questions, no hassle. I am very appreciative to have them as a vendor. I still shop around but used them a lot to wrap up the final touches on my resto, as they seemed to be the most reliable vendor and I could always count on having the parts in my hands within two days of placing the order (for the minimum shipping fee, of course).

Pat

 

[Gliderman8]

I've always used Moss and occasionally Rimmer... they are both dependable and generally have most items in stock. I gave up on the other supplier who's initials are T.R.F. (don't want to mention names :rolleye when they offered "Free Shipping" and then charged my credit card. Mistakes do happen with all the vendors but it's how they resolve the problems that keeps me loyal.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Mistakes do happen with all the vendors but it's how they resolve the problems that keeps me loyal.

And I believe Shawn's response above reflects that nicely.

 

[TR4nut]

And I believe Shawn's response above reflects that nicely.

Yup!

 

[Gliderman8]

And I believe Shawn's response above reflects that nicely.

You got it right Mickey.

 

[Andrew Mace]

...but I also think lots of folks would pay a premium for the highest quality available.

Oh, Dan, if only that were true for the majority of customers, but it appears not to be the case. Just that very situation was discussed on the Club Triumph Herald/Vitesse Forum recently. One of the most telling comments was from a major UK vendor (sorry, but I really don't like to name names good or bad in these discussions, but that's just me), who bemoaned the fact that, after immense effort to recreate from known good local (i.e., UK) vendors a shift bushing kit for the small Triumphs, people greatly preferred to buy cheaper (in every way) kits elsewhere...and then keep buying them every year or two, taking for granted that "they don't make 'em like they used to" and coughing up the slightly lesser amount of money again and again. It's sad, but I suspect most of even our most favored suppliers will tell you the same thing: that it is very difficult to sell "quality" when you actually have to charge more for it.

There's a ton of aftermarket "stuff" out there that sort of does the job...for a year or so, unlike original or NOS parts or quality reproduction parts that will do that same job for three, five or ten times longer, and at a price that isn't usually three, five or ten times as much. But "we" won't buy that good stuff. "We," of course, tend not to think twice about paying huge sums of money for parts and service on modern cars that cost us, say, $25,000 to purchase new. But on our collector cars that might be worth at least that much and will likely continue to appreciate, "we" work to save every possible penny, no matter what the cost down the road.

End soapbox.

 

[Popeye]

Oh, Dan, if only that were true for the majority of customers, but it appears not to be the case.

While I completely agree with Andrew, often what is missing is the "marketing" of the more expensive product. Companies need to better explain the premium for the product, such that the value (not having to re-do it every year, for example) is realized. And perhaps said vendor of a high quality product needs to sell the cheapie version as well, such that they stay in business from high volume sales to suckers.

Again, Andrew is correct, and marketing may not work effectively.