Starting Engine on rolling chassis - a good idea?

[PatGalvin]

Hello all
I'm just wrapping up my TR3A engine rebuild and will soon be marrying it up with the HVDA Toyo tranny and mounting this work of art back on the rolling chassis. I've been thinking that before I fit the body, it might be worth starting it up and seeing if she runs. Seems like I can provide fuel from a gas can. Can rig up cooling system and radiator. Cap off oil pressure feed or install gauge remotely. Wire up a battery to the coil for spark. And then I need to figure out how to wire up starter so I can start the car. I can't think of any reason why I can't start it and set initial timing and tune the carbs. Then, after I admire my handy work, I can shut down the engine and fit the tub and body parts and start on Phase II of the restoration.

Any thoughts, concerns? Am I missing something important? I'll need help rigging up the starter but figure that will be a piece of cake for most that frequent this forum.

pat

 

[TR3driver]

Sure, no problem, Pat. I've done similarly silly things, just to maintain enthusiasm for a project

Wire the starter using the same components you'll use on the car: heavy cables, solenoid, battery. You can run a jumper from the same battery to power the coil. If you have the proper "push button" solenoid, just push the button to crank the engine; otherwise you'll need a small jumper to provide power to the solenoid.

Don't forget coolant and oil!

 

[martx-5]

Here's a couple of videos...

Number 1

Number 2

Number 3

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Pat -

When I restored the TR3 a while back, I did exactly that - and it's a good thing! The engine promptly seized, because the machine shop that did the work of prepping the block shot-peened it and didn't inform the rebuilder. As a result, some of the "b-b's" they used for shot peening became lodged in the oil galleys, and locked up the engine. Since it was in the bare chassis, it was much easier to pull the engine and drop it off for yet another rebuild. (Thankfully, not at MY expense!)

 

[martx-5]

I actually waited until shortly after I had taken this picture. I still had the nose off the car and the tranny tunnel wasn't in, so if I did have to pull the engine and trans, it would have been fairly easy.

 

[sp53]

Wow Mickey that is a horror story. I had a shop put the cam bearings in once and one of the guys at that shop told me to make sure I flushed the engine out with hot water before I put anything back in because I guess they used that stuff also. If I had known, I would have suggested something different. Anyways if you do run your engine do not do what I did and elevate the fuel supply up five feet for gravity flow. What happens is it gave me too much fuel pressure and kept fouling out the plugs. It took me a lot of figuring to get something simple like that straightened out. Just let the pump pull the gas with the normal slight gravity from a simulated tank.
Steve

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Yeah, I was not a happy camper!

But I am so glad I did fire it up (or at least try to) before I started assembling the body.

 

[TR4nut]

I've never rebuilt a wet liner Triumph engine, and actually haven't rebuilt any engine in over 20 years - so my plan is definitely get the engine/transmission on the frame and fire it up rather than wait the months it will take before the body is ready to go on.

 

[tdskip]

Pat - only a good idea if you post pictured and video of it

I'm excited for you, know you've been working hard at this.

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

Pat,
I'm at the same point. I rigged up a box to hold the battery, the push-button to run the starter and a switch to feed the coil... I was surprised at how many other little things needed to be done before I'd be ready to start it. Tomorrow I will pick up a rod that I can use to pump oil before turning it over (tho I already checked the starter turns the engine). I have a siphon pump rigged from a gas can to the fuel pump. My newly refurbished radiator is installed.

For the past 4 years, aside from a slight trickle from the diff, not a drip of anything came out of the TR3 onto the garage floor. Yesterday I added water, oil and transmission oil, so the 'streak' ended. Water is still trickling from the block pet-cock, but it's not enough to worry about right now.

I'm hoping to start it Sunday. A club member or two may come by to see what else I've screwed up and have to correct before it runs.

When you get the HVDA/tranny installed, let me know the length of your drive shaft. Mine seems a 1/2" too short, but without the weight of the body, maybe it will be ok.

It is an exciting time.

 

[Lewis_McDorman]

If you're going to run a line from a fuel can I hope you'll ask you're friends not to smoke during the startup. Notice the guy in the first video smoking a cigar?

 

[tdskip]

I'm hoping to start it Sunday. A club member or two may come by to see what else I've screwed up and have to correct before it runs.

You better take pictures and video as well!

Good luck, excited for you too!

 

[davidk]

Here's a couple of videos...

Number 1

Number 2

Number 3

Interesting to watch the pistons in the carbs reacting to engine speed in video Number Two....

 

[PatGalvin]

Finally got the dizzy and manifolds installed and filled sump with oil. Tried to turn the crank with a rachet and fill oil galleries. That was a good work out and no oil arrived at the oil gauge. Would be much easier with the starter installed..

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement. Randy and Tex are at about same stage as me - fun to see these cars coming together. Excitement is building in my garage!

pat

 

[angelfj1]

Pat: You may have seen these videos already. They were shot last summer when we were testing the engine and drive train. This proves that the body isn't necessary for testing the rolling chassis. We called this setup "the rig". It is now in the hands of another TR enthusiast in Connecticut!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG2RvVAm7kU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Ak_OHsOkA&feature=channel

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

Pat,

I'm a lot more ghetto than Frank, but I love his set-up. I don't plan to drive mine, so I opted to use an old recycling container to secure the battery and house the starter solenoid, run switch and instruments. I thought my approach was top notch jerry-riggin since I even have a 'finger pull' for the choke and a green lite to show the switch is on. It pales in comparison to others, but I was able to hear it run. The only thing you can't see is the gallon gas can with a siphon hose running to the pump. It was well worth the effort and I'm sure I'll start it again before the body is back on.

Jerry

 

[PatGalvin]

Thanks Jerry and Frank. These are fun to see. Frank's drive around the neighborhood amused me and the kids. Frank, how does she sound with stock mufflers? Happy with that setup?

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

I have what is supposed to be a stock system on mine, but I noticed that Franks resonator looks different than mine. Mine is more round. The sound is much more quite than I expected. I think my TR6 has more "throat". But when I goosed the throttle, the sound was pleasing -still not very loud. I purchased the resonator off ebay from someone who didn't like the sound and went with cherry bombs -if my memory serves me correctly.

I remember when that link was first posted (new) and I thought to myself 'How cool is that'.

 

[angelfj1]

Pat -

When I restored the TR3 a while back, I did exactly that - and it's a good thing! The engine promptly seized, because the machine shop that did the work of prepping the block shot-peened it and didn't inform the rebuilder. As a result, some of the "b-b's" they used for shot peening became lodged in the oil galleys, and locked up the engine. Since it was in the bare chassis, it was much easier to pull the engine and drop it off for yet another rebuild. (Thankfully, not at MY expense!)

Mickey: Not to move this thread in another direction, but what did the shop find when they disassembled the engine? Was the crank badly scored? Any other details?

 

[angelfj1]

Thanks Jerry and Frank. These are fun to see. Frank's drive around the neighborhood amused me and the kids. Frank, how does she sound with stock mufflers? Happy with that setup?

Pat, Jerry: I am happy with the sound with the stock setup. I would call it "mellow". Of course, I'll know better when she's on the road.

Cheers