S-Type Bad Ball Joints, Control & A Arms

[shorn]

A few days ago I posted re: Squeaky Steering and received a couple of thoughts that it might be a bad serpentine belt or worn bushings in the steering column. This is a 2000 S-Type Jag with only 45K miles on it. Well, the dealer informs me that the car has worn ball joints, control arms and A arms on both sides. The fix---about $2750. First of all it is hard for me to believe that the ball joints, control and A arms would wear out in 100,000 miles, yet alone 45K. The car has been driven gently, never involved in an accident, and certainly hasn't been abused. So my question, does anyone have any knowledge of this problem with S-Type Jags? Although the car is out of warranty, I intend to bend the ear of a factory rep tomorrow.

 

[R6MGS]

My Caddy with 110KM has gone through a set of ball joints, sway bar, and sway bar mounts....I thought it was rediculous too but what can ya do...I guess it's cuz theres so much weight in the front or something.

 

[shorn]

Just pulled up a recall on the internet for 2000 S type Jags, regarding the fact that the ball joints were improperly torqued at the factory. As I recall, I brought my car into the dealer for a recall shortly after I purchased it. Apparently they didn't fix the problem.

 

[shorn]

Jaguar North America has stated they issued a recall for improperly torqued ball joints on 2000-2001 Stype Jags. Since my car supposedly had the ball joints retorqued to specs when the car was 6 months old, they are refusing to fix the ball joint problem now. It is my contention that if the ball joints, control arms, and A arms have failed on my gently driven S Type with 45,000 miles, there was either damage to the ball joints, etc. in the first 6 months of the cars life when the car was driven with improperly torqued ball joints, or they weren't properly retorqued when the initial recall was done. It looks like I will be getting into a legal dispute with them. For those owning an S Type Jag subject to recall, I would be very careful. I would hate to think what would have happened if the ball joint stud had snapped at 70 MPH.

 

[Exotexs]

If it was me in your situation, I would not bother getting into a legal dispute with them, it's a waste of money and time. Instead, get second and third OPINIONS about this problem, and if it is true, buy the parts yourself shopping around for prices, get a reputable independent mechanic to replace them, then sell the car. $2,700.00 sounds like a rip-off. I would think that half of that is more like the real cost. However if you have the means, by all means sue the h*** out of them, but remember you are dealing with Ford, not the old Jaguar company. The S type of today can be compared to a Ford Taurus or Mercury Sable, which are totally unreliable cars. I know exactly, we have a Mercury Sable, we can't get it repaired right, much less sell it right. If you want a real Jaguar, the last year Jaguar made a good model was 1987. Do not even think about a 1988 or newer model. Same with Rolls Royce today, you are really buying a Volkswagen-made car, and we all know about the "quality" of the new Beetles. I made the decision to have old Jags only, the quality is exceptional, but you must get a car that has been pampered by its previous owners, then you have a car for life. I have owned my 1984 XJ-6 for 15 years now, I am so used to its overall reliability, I bought a 1965 S type and have not been dissapointed, these cars are solid. New cars today are designed to become obsolete, to the convenience of car dealers and manufacturers. The song remains the same: "we gots to move these refrigeraters..."
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Please note the opinions expressed here are those of the writer.

 

[R6MGS]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead, get second and third OPINIONS about this problem, and if it is true, buy the parts yourself shopping around for prices, get a reputable independent mechanic to replace them, then sell the car. $2,700.00 sounds like a rip-off. I would think that half of that is more like the real cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

$2,700 might not be as far off as you think...When I did the ball joints on my Caddy at an independent shop(owned by a friend) it came out to about $1000 per side(they went at seperate times)....considering the other components that need replacing $2,700 doesn't sound all that bad anymore...

Thats the cost of owning a car like this....When I first started shopping for tires on my Jag I laughed when the tire salesman said $700 per tire.... until I started shopping around, thats when I relized that maintence on a Jaguar is nothing even close to that of a normal car.

 

[John S Farrington]

I would like to add "amen and halleluia" to EXOTEXS and his comment about the 1987 series 3 XJ6 being the last real Jaguar. My 1986 has 165,000 miles and is still driving like factory specification with no major work on any of the components except the rear drive. A pristine series 3 sedan that has been pampered, even with high mileage, is probably the best buy on todays used car market. They are reliable, simple, have reasonable cost in repair parts handle with the best and look beautiful. If you want a real Jaguar, get one before they become a sought after collector piece. Mine is not for sale!!

 

[R6MGS]

Don't tempt me john......

 

[shorn]

John,
I don't suppose you would entertain a swap of your 86 XJ6 for my 2000 S Type. Of course in its current state the ball joint studs are likely to fracture, which means you could be riding a little low in the front with little or no steering ability. I am still finding it hard to believe that the front suspension needs replacing at 45K miles.
For anyone entertaining a S Type Jag, let me run down the list of problems with my car.
1. 8/22/00 Poor AM reception of Premium Radio. Install AM reception kit, shield antenna wire.
2. 12/18/00 VEHICLE RECALL. Check and retorqued lower ball joints.
3. 12/18/00 Repair Trunk Release
4. 12/23/02 Vehicle won't start, towed to dealer. Replaced 2 year old battery.
5. 1/09/03 Vehicle won't start, towed to dealer. Found valve cover gaskets leaking oil onto spark plugs and wires causing short. Replaced gaskets, plugs, wires.
6. 2/25/03 Radio push buttons will not operate. Replace radio
7. 6/19/03 Low coolant warning light comes on. Replaced coolant expansion tank.
8. 6/19/03 Poor reception on some stations of replaced premium radio. Dealer can not fix without installing a external antenna.
9. 6/19/03 Performed Recall S139. Reflashed ECM
10. 6/19/03 Performed Recall S145. Repaired Coolant Level Sensor
11. 6/19/03 Performed Recall S474. Replaced Load Breather Hose Module.
12. 6/16/03 Technician found 1/2 inch of water in the rear of the car. Trunk seal leaking. Sealed and reinstalled trunk weatherstrip.
13. 11/05/03 vehicle won't start, towed to dealer. Found valve cover gaskets leaking oil onto spark plugs and wires, causing a short. Replaced valve cover gaskets, plugs and wires. IF THIS SOUNDS THE SAME AS ITEM # 5, IT IS BECAUSE IT HAS HAPPENED TWICE.
14. 2/04/04 Vehicle won't start, towed to dealer. Customer stated the car was started and moved from driveway into garage, but would not restart the next day. Removed spark plugs, found vehicle flooded. Advised customer that the auto choke on this model car may flood vehicle if started and not run long enough for choke to turn off.
15. 2/07/06 Squeaking steering. Diagnosis-failed ball joints, control arms and A arms on both sides of vehicle. SEEMS LIKELY TO BE RELATED TO ITEM 2.

Makes you want to go out and buy a new Jaguar S Type, doesn't it.
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PS 2/09/06 Dealer just called. UNFORTUNATELY NOT to inform me that Jaguar was going to stand behind their car and fix the ball joint problem, but to let me know that the WATER PUMP IS WEAPING AND SHOULD BE REPLACED.

 

[kennypinkerton]

Sounds like the typical new Ford to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

I had a similar list on the 1998 Ranger I owned.

 

[John S Farrington]

Shorn, Your experience is hard to believe and it sounds like you have a real jewel for a dealer. I have basically been driving Jags that I purchased used because I really enjoy automobile mechanics. I really dont think I have had that much service trouble on both the 86 series 3 and the 91 V12 combined. We have put a total of about 150K miles on them. I personally think that Jaguar made a huge blunder by getting into the XType. They dont (and shouldnt) have to compete in the mid range market. The S Type is a slightly different story since its styling is retro to the mark I and II series of cars that were so popular. The literature says that the S Type was built on the Lincoln platform and it certainly looks like it was. Further explanation said that Jag redesigned the Lincoln suspension and there are virtually no parts that are interchangeable. It sounds like the gentelmen from Coventry really screwed up a Ford design. It reminds me of Rover becoming licensed to build the Buick mid size V8. Having worked on Discoveries, its hard ato believe how the Buick design could have so many valve problems. There is a rumor that Jag is going to discontinue the X Type. Only the Brits could make such great cars and at the same time such bad ones. They cant blame their current problems on British Leyland quality control. Best regards and my sympathy, Jack

 

[shorn]

Interestingly, the 99-2001 Lincolns had a recall for improperly torqued ball joint retaining nuts, just like the 2000-01 Jag S Types. So I believe the suspensions of both must be very similar. Got my S Type back from the dealer today. The steering no longer squeaks, but my charge card did for the tune of $3209 including a front end alignment and sales tax. Parts were the big part of the bill at $2500. Labor at $99/hr for repalacing the parts and the alignment was $444. The dealer replaced both ball joints, vertical links, lower control arms, backing plates and A arms. Diagnois was that both front ball joints were very loose.

 

[John S Farrington]

Shorn, $99 /hour for dealer mechanics labor is very typical but $444 for alignment is ridiculous. Did it take over 4 hours to align the front end? Jack

 

[shorn]

John,
I wasn't clear enough. The $444 was for total labor for changing all the suspension parts and for the alignment. As upset as I am regarding Jaguar not fixing this problem for free, I feel the dealer labor charge was reasonable. Breaking down the $444 labor was actually $324 for the labor on suspension and $120 for the alignment. The $99/hr figure is probably typical for dealers in our area. The parts at $2500 for 2 ball joints, verticle links and wishbones seems pricey.
Now I file a complaint with NHTSA Nat'l Highway Traffic Safety Admin, since this was already a recall problem for Jags, and I get my small claims court case ready. Maybe I should depose the head of Ford, Inc.

 

[John S Farrington]

Shorn, Good luck! The head of Ford's last name is Ford. Edsel would be more appropriate. Have a good weekend, Jack

 

[Exotexs]

Shorn, the list of problems sound like our Mercury Sable; in the 15 years of owning my 1984 XJ-6 (another pristine example like John Farrington's, and no, I am not selling mine either), I have never had those kinds of problems, and you all know what they always say about Jaguar's electricals, not true in my car, it is absolutely reliable mechanically, electrically, you name it, however it is not a Toyota Corolla in gas mileage, nor do I expect it to be, it's a Jaguar. And yes, I have replaced the front brake rotors and pads, and I change the fuel filter and oil and filter when needed, belts too, and a/c compressor once. same as in any other car I've ever had.

What is curious is that both my Jags are not Trailer Queens, but I drive them long distances, from Tennessee to California or Florida or Pennsylvania, at an average 80mph. I've yet to have a failure that left me stranded on the road, as in "Tow Truck Time", unless you count a flat tire as a failure. I always say: "if it's not worth driving long distances, it's not worth having".

On the subject of cost to repair the front end in your car, (sounds more like rebuilding it), I may be ignorant of what's happening in the Jaguar repair business, because I do my own repairs, and then I don't have many repairs to do, usually things that I can fix by asking others for help, like adjusting the carbs in my '65 S type because it was dieseling. I got the answers I needed right here in this forum, a little tinkering, problem solved. (the Mercury Sable is a problem, but I usually get it fixed researching the internet). I still think you need to get other opinions on the supposed failure of the front end in your car at 45K miles.

 

[shorn]

Update,
I received a call from a Jaguar Customer Service Rep with whom I had spoken to regarding the failed ball joints, control arms, etc. After discussing the problem with the dealer service manager and the factory rep, Jaguar has decided to issue me a check for a little over $2800 or about 90% per cent of the cost of repairs. Although it took a few calls to Jaguar, they ultimately agreed that my autos problem probably was associated with the reason for the initial recall. I am satisified and thankful that the customer service rep and Seattle dealer went to bat for me.

 

[John S Farrington]

Hooray for the Jag service rep. Maybe there's hope. Jack

 

[Michael J.]

Are these ball joints greasable? Used to be that ball joints had grease zerts (nipple) and with periodic greasing, would last forever as long as the rubber boot was intact.

Then came along the supposedly better "sealed" joints used on many cars. Some had a plug that could be removed to install a grease zert. If possible, you will want to have ball joints that can have zerts installed so that you can grease them every 6,000 miles or so.

 

[shorn]

There are not grease fittings (zerks) on the ball joints. They are sealed and Never (ha ha) require additional lubrication.