TR2/3/3A rocker covers again

[sp53]

Ok so I put on the new rocker covers from Moss and I calledTRF about their rockers and dimensions; it sounds like they are both the same, also.My problem is with the rocker cover and where the front fender laps into the rocker coverin that recess; the rocker is held out from bolting tight to the outer sill becauseof the too large of rocker cover. the one picture is the B post end. Plus I would need to oval out the lower holeson the fender. My pictures are not so good. Has anyone dealt with this? the rockers are not correct!?

 

[CJD]

I think you're right...the outer rocker is too wide. The fix would seem to be to re-form the upper edge to bring the rocker inboard about 1/2". I would hammer the bend straight, and then re-bend the lip 1/2" closer. I can't tell from them pics, but a similar operation may be needed on the lower edge too.

With most car restorations new parts are great. With Triumphs, repro body parts are so far off that I avoid them if I can. I think I average sending half of them back. Unfortunately, the new sills you got are about as good as it gets, so I doubt exchanging them will help.

As much work as this will be, it's very fortunate you detected the problem before the sills were welded on. It could have been much worse.

 

[CJD]

I found a few more pics of the fit you are looking for. The bondo is nessecary as the repro sills are produced flat, and have to have a slight bow added...







Oh...love the spot welds! I'm getting jealous!

 

[sp53]

That is a good idea John. I bet I could take them into shop I know and have the 90 re-bent about 3/8 or maybe ¼ to allow for the fold and then grind off what sticks up and out. I took a picture of the B post and that sticks out maybe a quarter were the front is may little more. They seem to have a taper all the way down. And yes I have not welded any of the sills because I want to see how everthing fits. I have been using iron truss headed self-taping screws. Thanks for picture

 

[sp53]

Thanks for those pictures John they gave a starting point. I took some pictures of the new rockers and they stick out a ½ inch! I will have to re-bend them. Moss told me they sold like 1100 without any complaints, right.Moss was cool about it they said they will pay for shippingsend them back, and I think TRF are the same, and VB only showed one part number for both?Maybe I should call them and see.

 

[CJD]

I was trying to think if anything else could be off with your "A" pillar to affect the fit, but it all looks good. It just has to be the way the latest round of sills are being made. I had to laugh when you quoted the tech. I've got that same line many times! In the end, it really doesn't matter how many they have sold if it doesn't fit.

I bet the VB rocker is missing the pressings at the front, making it "unisex". It seems like I remember getting one like that.
The only consistency I found with body parts is that the ones that showed up with the "British Heritage" stickers were all pretty good. without the BH certification they were hit or miss.

 

[charleyf]

Sp53,
I used a set of TRF rockers and though I had a few modifications they are nothing like you are experiencing. So I went out and measured the width of the rocker at front and back. This is the distance with a tape measure fitted against the inside of the upward right angle that fits next to the sill and the outer most width of the rocker. I got 2&1/2" front and back. I was looking down at the tape to get this measurement so it includes the outermost part of the rocker that fits below the door. If your rocker is wider than that you might want to consider buying a different set that is not over sized. If your measurement is about 2&1/2" then you need to look at where you picked up the extra space to "force" the rocker out. Or why your A post is possibly narrower than it should be as fitted against the sill.

Have you tried to fit the door on the car and see how it fits against the rocker? And how the front fender fits against that same door? In my opinion the final measurement of success in this area is how the door fits on the finished car. That is to the front fender , to the rocker below, to the rear quarter and of course the all powerful gaps around the door. In this case you should be looking primarily at the evenness of the edges to the flat side of the car. Or of course in this case, Will the door even close when fitted against the rocker?

I would add that I replaced the floors, sills and rockers on the car that I am working on and I used TRF products all around. This would include the newer upgraded TRF sill. Which does, as pointed out in an earlier reply, have an indentation in the sill for both A and B posts. Which come to think of it could move the A and B post as much as 1/16" inward. But that would not be enough to make up the distance that you need.
If I can help with any other measurements please ask.
Charley

 

[sp53]

Thanks Charley I woke up thinking about asking others about the size of the rocker at the top from outside to outside. I was slow to post my rocker problem in the first place because I was pretty sure I had something wrong and could not see it, and I still do. My new rockers measure 2- ¾.

I also replaced the inner sills and floors. I purchased the sills and floors from VB, they had a nice sale, and the rockers I got from Moss. Anyways when I cut the sill free from the A post, I did not notice the A post was inset into the sill that would be a healthy 1/16. However, moving the A post in makes things worse. So, it was right at the top of the sill where there was notch to let in the A post? Did the notch cut into both folds of sheet metal on the top or just one? When I look at John’s picture again, I can see that the A post is maybe in farther to the first fold of sheet metal. I wish my sills would have been notched it sure would have made things easier to help see the door opening.

I have not welded anything for fear of the obvious, like the doors will not fit. I did get the doors and fenders on with the door working fine by using self-tapping screws. The first problem I saw was the fenders would not come in at the bottom and there was a ¼ inch ledge along the top of the rocker.

When I talked to TRF, I only talked about the notch for the A post. I neglected to ask the total width. Now that I see things better I will call them again. They probably miss me. I see Moss has a caveat with the rockers. The caution sounds like length and not width. This car is a 1958 and early 60 K car and I wonder if that makes a difference?

 

[charleyf]

Sp53
I am working on a 58 body with a #44000. The indentation is in the side of the sill and is pressed in not cut in.
I took some additional measurements ( I hope they help and not confuse you). With the tape measure at a right angle to the rocker as before I get 2&1/2 " at the top and 1&1/2" at the bottom of the rocker. That is both front and back and does not include the right angle portion of the rocker, which could add about 1/16" if you added that into the measurement.
next I measured the front of the rocker where it is indented to go under the fender. At the top it is 1&3/8" from the sill to the outer portion of the rocker. At the bottom it is 1&1/8" to the sill.
i hope it is clear what I measured. I believe our cars should be the same in these areas.
Charley

 

[sp53]

Thanks for looking Charley. It looks like mine is a little fatter by ¼ on the top and bottom, and yes it is difficult to describe places of measurement with words and I did get a little confused with your second set of measurements, but I am always a little confused. On your second set of numbers, were you talking about the 90 degree notch for the A post or that little indent for the fender lap that is about 3/16 deep?

 

[charleyf]

What I was referring to about the right angle is the 1/2" flange on the rocker that is welded to the side of the sill. These flanges are located on the top and bottom of the rocker. So I put the tape measure on top of the sill and butted the end of the tape against that 1/2"flange. Therefore the flange was not included in the 2&1/2"measurement.
The next set of numbers is from the flat side of the sill to the very front of the rocker. This very front of the rocker is slightly indented to fit underneath the front fender.
Charley

 

[sp53]

Thanks Charley I got it now. Did you much trouble at 2 ½ widthgetting the fender to bolt tight at the bottom?
Steve

 

[charleyf]

My car had some damage in the left front body, sill and frame area. But on the right undamaged side I had no problems with getting the fender to fit over the rocker at the 2&1/2". On the left side due to extensive rust in the lower fender I had to replace the entire lower piece that is part of the fender but is the horizontal piece that extends to the sill. I looked at this new piece that I made and it is wider than the one on the right side by maybe 1/4". Which brings it back to be similar to your problem. But I will say that the bolt holes for the fender and the A post holes line up and the door fits well (flush) with the fender. To me how the door fits controls how things should go together on these cars.
Charley

 

[sp53]

Oh yes for sure the door fit and gap is critical. I have had the doors in and out a number of times and they are fine. I used homemade patches on both front fenders and can make the horizontal piece a ¼ bigger to fix the problem. I just did not like how things went together and will probably have the rockers re-bent to about 2 3/8 because that looks about correct. I am still curious what others have for a complete outside to outside measurement of their rockers at the top where the door opens. My guess is stock is 2 3/8.