Novice seeking advice on starting problem

[Ted_Merendino]

Hey Guys,

I have a little problem with Penny - she randomly fails to start. I'll turn the key and all I get is a "click." Turn the key again and "click."

The first time this happened I thought the battery was dead. I tried to jump her but didn't have any luck. I got her started on compression. Since then this scenario happens about 1/4 of the time. It doesn't matter if she's been sitting for a week or just driven 5 minutes earlier. Sometimes the starter will crank for a second or two then make a whining noise. I try the ignition again and I get "click."

Can anyone suggest some places to check. My feeling is that there may be a flat spot on the starter. This is my first classic and I don't know where to start.

Thanks,
Ted

 

[Sarastro]

This sounds an awful lot like a bad starting motor to me. I'd put a voltmeter on the starter terminal and see if it's getting voltage when it fails to turn over. If there is voltage and no action, that's a pretty good indication that the starter is kaput.

If it's a starter, you might be able to fix it. These puppies are legendary for broken internal wires, which can be fixed easily.

Of course, if something is loose anywhere else in the circuit, between the battery and the starter, this could happen. But checking the voltage at the starter should tell you whether that is happening.

If you don't see voltage at the starter, work back through the circuit to the battery to see where you're losing it. If the relay is clicking, the only possibilities left are the solenoid & cable connections.

 

[racingenglishcars]

Like he said. But they are also legendary for poor internal connections in the solenoid. It just clicks and no start.

 

[dklawson]

My thought was also the internal contacts of the solenoid.

The next time your solenoid acts up you could try this test. Put the car in neutral. If you want it to start leave the ignition on. Take a pair of bare (non-insulated) pliers and put one handle on the heavy lug on the solenoid that has the wire going to the starter motor. Tap the other handle of the pliers to the hot (battery cable) side of the solenoid. It will spark. It will make a pop. That's normal, don't let it startle you. If the motor spins up easily like that, replace the solenoid. If the motor still grunts and whines, consider taking the motor apart, cleaning the commutator and re-lubing the bushings.

 

[Ted_Merendino]

Thanks for the responses guys. As I said I'm a novice with Penny and she's not in front of me right now... can someone point me to where I should look for the solenoid?

 

[JerryB]

I'll turn the key and all I get is a "click."


have someone turn the key and you listen where the click is coming from.

if you have a late car the starter will have an attached solenoid and the early cars have a sol screwed onto the firewall.

""""""""""""Since then this scenario happens about 1/4 of the time """""""""""""""

check all cables and GROUND wire from the battery....and both batt terminals.

 

[dklawson]

This picture isn't mine but I found it while googling the topic.
https://mgmidgets.com/pics/stock/stock111c.JPG
look below the blower motor connection to the air plenum, (just to the left and behind the heater hose) and you'll see a round, silver cylinder with battery cables on it. The two battery cables are the ones I'm suggesting you jumper with the pliers (careful not to let the pliers touch the chassis while doing this). The solenoid could also have been replaced with the later type which is a stamped sheet metal frame with a block looking thing on it.

Here's the early solenoid with push button:
https://www.rarebits4classics.co.uk/Products/Solenoid.JPG
Here's a later type:
https://www.7ent.com/images2/srb325.jpg

 

[bugimike]

I see by your signature line that you have a bugeye, in which case you have an even earlier type of solenoid (the pull-type) which looks like this, and is located in the same general area! These can be taken apart and refurbished if they are nasty inside!

 

[Ted_Merendino]

Thanks a bunch for all the information! I can't wait to take a look when I get home from work.

 

[jlaird]

Turn the key and get a click? What kind of a Bugeye is this, it is supose to have a button you pull to engage the starter switch.

 

[dklawson]

I had the same observation after looking at your profile which said "60 bugeye" but I figured since you heard a click, you had an electric solenoid regardless of what the car came with... so I posted picture links.

Then on the way home it occurred to me that even the picture links weren't necessary. Just find your starter motor and follow the big cable back from it to the first big component with two heavy cables on it.

 

[Bugeye58]

if you have a late car the starter will have an attached solenoid and the early cars have a sol screwed onto the firewall.

Not on a Sprite, Jerry. The MGB had an attached solenoid, but all Spridgets (Even the 1500's) used the same old Lucas starter with the remote solenoid or pull switch.
Jeff

 

[Sarastro]

I noticed this--the bugeye originally had a pull switch, not a solenoid. But, I assumed that he has a solenoid that was added later--it can be done. Otherwise, there would be no click.

The solenoid, assuming there is one, can indeed fail from burning of the high-current contacts or similar failure. It doesn't take much increased contact resistance for it to prevent starting. However, if that is the problem, and the starter is OK, you should see virtually no voltage (or a very low voltage) at the starting motor when you try to start. That's why I suggest checking the voltage at the starter itself.

 

[jlaird]

Starter will click in a BE when it is going away.

 

[JerryB]

"""""Spridgets (Even the 1500's) used the same old Lucas starter with the remote solenoid or pull switch.""""""

Jeff: you right ........gotta luv those Lucas starters...reminds me of the Fords from the early 50's.....hammer the brakes and the starter gear goes into the ring gear.

FOB (first order of bizness) might be to eliminate those goofy pull cable or push button solenoids and the tractor starter and screw in a Hitachi or Nippondens type.....

Reliability might trump originality/matching numbers.

 

[jlaird]

The pull starter on a BE is bullet proof and can be easly repaired if it gets pitted. Always better an old unit than the new ones.

 

[dklawson]

Like Jack said, the new stuff is typically junk. I've had three of the round, push-button reproduction solenoids fail (two on the Mini, one on the Triumph). I finally gave up with the Mini and got an old squarish Lucas solenoid of mine, drilled out the rivets so I could take it apart and sanded the contacts clean. I re-assembled it with machine screws and it's been very reliable. I wish I could use the original round solenoids... but they aren't good enough.

 

[jlaird]

BE pull to start ones require cutting two slots in each end of the metal so sides and ends can be bent back to get to the inards. nothing in there but a spring and a pair of contacts, big copper ones. Can be reasembled by reverseing the procedure.

Always wanted to say that. Hehe.

 

[Sarastro]

Like Jack said, the new stuff is typically junk.....

Starting solenoids (as opposed to pull switches) are pretty generic--unless you're concerned about original appearance, I see no reason why a 12V solenoid from some later car couldn't be used. Virtually any American-car solenoid should handle the starting current of a Sprite easily, and the coil current should be about the same.

 

[dklawson]

You are of course correct that any late-model solenoid can be made to work. When I was talking about the new stuff being junk I was referring to the reproduction parts for our LBCs.

I wanted the cylindrical solenoid with push-button for originality but have given up. I happened to have a used square Lucas solenoid that once cleaned I put into service (therefore... semi-original). I have been told that a good, common solenoid to ask for at the parts store is one for a 1960s Mustang. Supposedly they are similar in size to the Lucas ones but I haven't had occasion to research this myself.