Time to go racing again - seeking clean Spridget

[BuggerAll]

I've decided, 33 years after I last turned a wheel in competition (sold the car & went back to college) that it's time to go racing again. Looking for a car, and have a few irons in the fire. Seeking semi-elliptic Spridget, must be clean, straight, not too cut up from coil-over conversion, with suspension bits to make it conform to LP HP regs. Motor desireable but not necessary by any means, SC CR gearbox a plus, rear discs also a plus but not required. Current roll cage and log book a major plus. If you have such a car, or know of one, please respond here with contact info, I'll be checking every day. Another plus if the car is within 250 miles of Washington DC, but taht's flexible too (but not west of Ohio-Indiana line).

Thanks, Buggerall, formerly no. 27 GP Spridget, Detroit region, soon to be no. ?, Washington DC region.

 

[aeronca65t]

BA-

Here's an alternate idea: consider vintage racing.

I know, I know......Many folks think that vintage racing is not *real* racing. That's usually until they actually try it.

I ran my first club race at Bridgehamton in the early 70s. I've been running vintage for about 6 years now
(mostly with ~VRG~ , an east coast club).

My last non-vintage, club race in my Spridget was at BeaveRun 3 years ago. The same year, I also ran a vintage event at BeaveRun (the PVGP). My laps times in the vintage event were faster. Because the vintage drivers are smoother and there are less *stupid* moves (there's still a few.....but much less).

Also, it's cheaper (many cars, like mine are near-stock except for safety items). You won't (and can't) use coil-overs, flares, giant tires, trick suspension, etc. It's actually more like racing used to be when I started.

I honestly think I get more seat time in vintage and the event registration doesn't cost any more. Plus I don't have to deal with hoards of ~SpecMiatas~ and Hondas. Instead you get to race with lots of other Sprites, MGAs, Ginettas, Spitfires, Alfas, etc.

To me, it's just more fun. My better half likes the social part of it better too
(not that SCCA/NASA/EMRA, folks are bad.......but these vintage folks are really excellent).

For reference, here's a video I shot from my Spridget two weeks ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0szX4jqWsM

And here's pictures from our last event (we're heading to Watkins Glen in three weeks....can't wait)

https://vintageracer.tripod.com/njmp09.html

Whatever you decide to do, have fun!

 

[skippymga]

Chris Meyers is thinking of selling his Spridget.

 

[BuggerAll]

Thanks for the responses, Aeronca & Skippy. Skippy - where is Chris Meyers located?
Aeronca: what are the VRG rules? Could one run a LP HP car with LP engine, full chassis prep in VRG? I guess the vintage groups have differing standards of acceptable prep.
I guess the ideal would be a car that could run both LP HP and, with a different head and carbs, FP in vintage -

 

[Hedgehog]

PM sent.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Thanks for the responses, Aeronca & Skippy. Skippy - where is Chris Meyers located?
Aeronca: what are the VRG rules? Could one run a LP HP car with LP engine, full chassis prep in VRG? I guess the vintage groups have differing standards of acceptable prep.
I guess the ideal would be a car that could run both LP HP and, with a different head and carbs, FP in vintage -

If you don't find anything, let me know, you made try going to the SCCA prod racing forum htat would be better pace to find a LP Midget. I've built several of thes LP 1275 engine and even a couple LP car. Here's a photo of the last one I built.

 

[aeronca65t]

Chris Meyers lives in Connecticut.
His car is a quarter-elliptic car with a 1275. I honestly didn't know it was for sale.

If you'd like to see his (silver) Midget (in action) it's in this video (he comes onto the screen at about the 2:00 mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3KjbGMzw0Q

VRG is sort of "flexible" with classing cars.

They tend to find a class for cars (unless the car is too wild or crazy looking).
For example, my Spridget is really a 1500 rubber bumper Midget. Technically, it's too new for vintage, but it looks like an older Sprite. And my stock engine is slower than a lot of the 1275s. So I basically fit in nicely as a midpack car. They could have turned me away on a technicality, but they didn't. Basically, VRG is laid back about that stuff (but they are strict when it comes to enforcing rules against poor driving).

A Spridget (without flared fenders) could run in the regular Spridget group (usually, that's Group 2 but it depends on the venue). If you start turning much faster lap times, you may be asked to 'move up" a faster group (with MGBs, TR4s, etc)

Ray Stone races with us and he was asked to move up to a faster group after a he started kicking all our butts in the small bore group. Ray was a consistant SCCA National champ when I was back in college (and sort of a hero to me). He's still fast 40 years later. He runs a 948 in his Bugeye (and he told me "it's sort of tired"). He beats most of the MGBs, big TRs etc. He's a stupendous driver.

Note: flared fenders are a no-no in most vintage events, but I've seen some "slight" flares at VRG events and no one says anything. You can't run big, obvious flared fenders like the ones on Hap's car above.

As far as running coil-overs or rear disks, I'm not sure. I haven't seen anyone who is running that setup in our club (I think that's what you mean by LP....yes?). You'd have to ask Mark Palmer, the VRG president (his e-mail is on the VRG website listed below).

There seems to be no real rule about engine prep as long as you keep things reasonable. No modern turbos or 16 valve, trick heads of course. But 1275s in a Bugeye seems to be no real problem (but again, if you start kicking butt, you move up a class.....seems like a fair way to do it in my view).


VRG has an excellent one-weekend race school in the Spring (at New Hampshire). If you do well, they may let you run (from the back of the pack) that weekend. And if you don't have a vintage car, you can use a modern race car to get your license at the school (but you can't race in the vintage races with a modern car) One guy got his vintage license in a SpecMiata last year.

Here's the VRG website;

https://www.vrgonline.org/

Send me a personal message and we can chat via e-mail or on the phone if you want to know more.
(click on "aeronca65t" on the upper left side of my message and choose "Send a PM")

I have Chris Meyer's e-mail here if you want me to send it to you (I don't want to post it on a public forum).

Nial

 

[skippymga]

Now that looks like fun Hap!

 

[BuggerAll]

Thanks for all the replies. I saw Ray Stone at the Sprite 50 last year, he said he was thinking of un-retiring for vintage. I'm looking at a couple of options and hope to have something in the garage by early December. I wonder if I can come up with a compromise on the flares that doesn't involve pop rivets, so that I have something that works with 8" slicks. Anyone have any experience with the narrower Avons? Hap did the flywheel that's in my 1275 BE streeter, but that's a car I don't see converting to race use. I'll be contacting him shortly about a bunch of engine parts including the EN40 crank I just picked up that has a little rust spot...

 

[Monkeywrench]

Thanks for all the replies. I saw Ray Stone at the Sprite 50 last year, he said he was thinking of un-retiring for vintage. I'm looking at a couple of options and hope to have something in the garage by early December. I wonder if I can come up with a compromise on the flares that doesn't involve pop rivets, so that I have something that works with 8" slicks. Anyone have any experience with the narrower Avons? Hap did the flywheel that's in my 1275 BE streeter, but that's a car I don't see converting to race use. I'll be contacting him shortly about a bunch of engine parts including the EN40 crank I just picked up that has a little rust spot...

Ray Stone has been out at least 2x with VRG. VRG, VCDA, etc are all a little more relaxed than SVRA. SVRA entry fees tend to be a little bit higher, but they usually get the deepest fields as far as competition goes and all the vintage organizations on the east coast use their ruleset. The big festival events, VIR - Gold Cup, Watkins Glen - US Grand Prix, and the Road America - Kohler International Challenge feature the most car counts and very fast fields (think of them as the June Sprints of vintage racing).

As far as car prep goes, the average vintage FP car is running a chassis similar to an SCCA LP car, but with vintage tires, 6" wheels, no rear disc conversion, and they're running "full prep" motors.

If you build a car with an SCCA legal roll cage and stock body work you can run anywhere.. NASA, SCCA, EMRA, SVRA, VDCA, HSR, VRG, etc. With an SCCA car, your pretty much limited to SCCA.

 

[aeronca65t]

If you build a car with an SCCA legal roll cage and stock body work you can run anywhere.. NASA, SCCA, EMRA, SVRA, VDCA, HSR, VRG, etc. With an SCCA car, your pretty much limited to SCCA.

Yes!
Exactly!

 

[Michael Oritt]

You can't run with VSCCA with a roll cage, much less an SCCA car.

 

[aeronca65t]

Michael:

If I'm correct, I think the only Sprite that can *technically* run with VSCCA is a Bugeye.

 

[BuggerAll]

Well,I have a BE but that's staying on the street. Guess I'll be concentrating the search for an SCCA car, since I want to go back and run the June Sprints and some other events. I am looking at a couple of possibilities and awaiting contact from another couple of people who have listed cars for sale. I wish to thank everyone who has responded here - wish we'd had something like this board back when I was racing in the 70's, back then the only messaging we could do was in the paddock at the track -

Thanks again, will post when I find something. If anyone hears of anything please pm me.

Buggerall.

 

[hpmowog]

If you're considering vintage, I've got a vintage race bugeye rolling chassis for sale. It's got a solid tub, a very nice roll cage, and a lot of new suspension pieces. More info is located here:

https://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?42,1132901,1132901#msg-1132901

 

[BuggerAll]

Thanks for responding, but LA is a little too far to go to inspect. Currently looking at a couple of cars, one was advertised close by but owner decided not to sell.

 

[Michael Oritt]

Yes, and a very stock one with narrow tires (I guess Dunlop 204's such as I use on the Courier) is what they would want to see. I think accepting such a plebian car (along with the 10o-6) must have stuck into the craw of some VSCCA folks but whatever it was a fine move and can perhaps open the club up to folks who want to vintage race without all the big $$ attached.

I often make fun of the VSCCA bowtie set, but I always have a good time at their events (they don't say they are racing but of course everyone is). There is certainly a place in the racing world for this organization--you simply need to take it on its own terms or not at all.

 

[Michael Oritt]

Buggerall--

This string has gone on for a while and I am not sure what exactly what kind of car you are now looking for, how you intend to set it up and how much work you are able or willing to do.

But a friend just came by a 1275 with supposedly good transmission and engine and if you are interested in seeing it lt me know. I live in Solomons, MD and he is only a few miles away. My cell phone is 305-793-9467 and you could be out this way in 1-1/2 hrs.

 

[BuggerAll]

Hi Michael - Way back in the 1970's I built my own G Prod car from the ground up, it was pretty good for the time, consistent regional winner and competitive/podium finisher in nationals. I sold it when I went back to school and after a successful run under its new owner it passed into successive sets of hands in the 1990's and has disappeared. What I'm looking for now is a hybrid - something I can run in both select vintage events and SCCA. I'm looking for something which was built from the ground up solely as a racer, not a streeter (my BE is plenty hot for the street but I would not make a racer out of it). Looking for a car with complete suspension and brakes, with big pluses being a current logbook and an SCCA-passed rollbar/cage. I'm sure I can do a very competent LP HP engine which, with a different head and carbs, I could also run as an FP car in vintage. I think I've sourced a straight cut - close ratio gearbox. There is a very expensive roller out there I have my eye on which may be a default choice - although it would be hard to make a vintage-legal car out of, since it has pretty radical flares. So the must-have list is:
1/ Good suspension, either lever shocks or coilovers, wiggle springs in back or composites. Sway bars and Panhard or Watts link. Rear comp axles plus double hubs, at least a welded 4.22 rear. Comp front spindles. Rear brakes either discs or drums.
2/ safety equipment including current cage, fuel cell, electrical shutoff, fire system, good seat.
I am limited in the amount of time I have available, so I can't get into a project which requires a top-to-bottom refurbishing of every bit. So a solid rolling chassis with all the bits described above would fit the bill -

 

[BuggerAll]

If you look at the for sale section at prodracing.com you'll see a couple of things I'm looking at, one advertised by Kendall Jones and the other by Peter Morton. One has a pedigree but is missing a lot of stuff (most of it for sale a la carte) while the second is unknown - if anybody on here knows about either car, your input would be appreciated. Thx -