Need help with clutch

[Tinster]

The Crypt Car interior is now gutted.

The Crypt Car is now operational to the degree
I think it might make it to a repair shop. Wendy
will follow me in my Jeep with a tow cable in case
the beast dies on the way.

I have a very sticky" clutch. I need some
very specific advice on what exact parts to order
from TRF. A very complete list of parts down to
nuts, bolts, washers, grease, feeler thingies,
gaskets, etc.

I have read good reviews on their in-house
"Magic" clutch and throw out bearing.

I have located a mechanic willing to attempt
to install the clutch. I must supply all the pieces.

If anything is missing and I have to order additional
parts, I must pay daily $$$ rental of the lift and
repair bay. That's almost $3,000. for a one week turn-around if I am missing any parts.

So for you experts out there who know the Crypt Car,
basic 1969ish with TR250 engine block, can you help me out with a parts list?

Thanks as always.

d /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif

 

[bunzil]

I'm surprised no one has jumped on this one yet. But I'll throw my two cents in....

First of all, there is no hydraulic lift involved. The tranny comes out through the interior. I don't even know if it can be removed from below. The seats come out, carpets, trans tunnel, then the trans. A good mechanic should be able to knock it off easy in three hours. Four if he's unfamilar with the car. Five, if he's me and he sits around a lot, stopping for beer breaks.

Here's my shortlist. Remember, you can always over-order and return parts.

1) Complete and matching clutch assembly (don't mix manufacturers). Clutch plate, throwout bearing, and pressure plate. I'm sure the Magic Kit addresses this.
2) clutch alignment tool. Not really necessary, but so cheap why not? I think this may be included with the Magic Kit.
3) hardened fork pin bolt. (I see TRF now sells this with the cross shaft, fork, bearings, and slave push rod for $79 (part # RFK1249). I wouldn't hesitate to get this kit and replace the lot.
4) clutch master cyl. and slave rebuild kits.
5) order a front trans seal as well. If there is any leakage at all, replace it (why not?) I'd get the gasket used for the cover that holds the seal in place. It's cheap enough - gaskets never come out in one piece when you don't have a spare nearby.

That's my list. Anyone else? What did I miss?

 

[Tinster]

Thanks Ned, that's a good start.

I have already installed new clutch
master and slave cylinders.

I'll keep a tally of the parts list and compare.
I have no hesitation at all to purchase parts
I might not need.

The lift is involved because the meachanic's bay
has a lift in it. The car will sit on the lift
regardless. This is a two man shop. My car dies
in their single bay, I put them out of business--
thus the daily bay fee, if I have to wait for parts..

 

[Geo Hahn]

If the clutch operating shaft has grease fittings on each end (like a TR3 or 4) then I would keep it as I think the replacements do not. 'Lubed for life' I guess with 'life' being how long that bearing lasts w/o being lubed.

I would also recommend you drill the fork & shaft and add a 1/4" grade 8 bolt thru them as insurance against the day when the fork pin breaks. R Williams' book and many websites detail this simple improvement.

Quite right that no lift is needed but I guess it can't hurt. Pretty easy to push the car off and out of the way if it has to sit for a spell while parts or other things occur.

The real work is inside the car. There will be a couple of occasions to crawl under (e.g. if the propshaft is to be disconnected at the rear) but those are simple enough with the car on jackstands or ramps.

You will need new self-locking nuts for the propshaft (driveshaft) - 4 if just undoing the front flange, 8 if also undoing the rear.

You may want to get the flywheel re-surfaced while it is right there in front of you. If you do remove it then you might as well put in a new pilot bush and you may need 2 new locking plates (if the 6 uses those). If you do not remove it you may want to do something to eliminate and glaze or contamination on it (and the pressure plate). I know what I did but perhaps other can advise on this.

All this is predicated on my experience with 4-cyl TRs but I think in this area the 6 is very similar.

 

[Guest]

You shouldn't need to put them out of business regardless. The gearbox will come out throught the interior as has been listed already. It's a bit fiddly, and unless you are feeling like a workout - especially if this is an od tranny - a jack and a helpmate is of use.

Even if you don't get all the parts, this thing is still a roller though. Just push it off the lift if you need to wait for something.

This is a job that can be done easily at home - I'd get the wrench round to you if you don't feel like doing it yourself; it's a days job in and out if you never did one, 4-5 hours if you did! Since you already gutted the interior, less.

Oh and order a flywheel - if yours is ok, return it. If not use it, it'll save you some time on the off chance you need to replace it.

 

[DougF]

What do you mean when you say the clutch is very sticky? I'm not certain that this is necessarily a reason to swap clutches at this point. I would drive the car some more. You may have rust or a contaminant on the flywheel that is causing this.
If the symptom goes away with drive time, enjoy the car and replace the clutch when it is bad.
If you are swapping clutches because you want to have a new clutch, that's a different story.

 

[Guest]

One other thing. For heavens sake dont forget to re-install the dowels. I know a guy who did, and had to pull the tranny after we'd installed it as a unit with the engine.

I just remembered what a pita that was!

 

[Don Elliott]

I agree with Doug F.

I hadn't driven my TR3A for 18 years while it sat in my dry garage when we raised our family. After the restoration in 1990, I took it out for the inspection (much like MOT) and the clutch grabbed and bolted in the driveway, at stop signs and especially in traffic as the light turned green. It would start like a scared what ?? After a week, it was fine. It's been smooth for all 16 years since then although I replaced the clutch about 5 years ago.

 

[swift6]

Clutch jobs are the true initiation for TR6 owners. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'd like to echo the question about what kind of stickyness? Is it slipping upon engagment or do you feel a binding when depressing the clutch pedal?

Replacing the clutch really is a straight forward, R&R type of work though. No more complicated than the rear suspension work that you have already done.

You've had the car on jack stands before, that's all the height you really need for the clutch work. As stated previously, the trans comes out through the interior (passenger side is easiest if the sterring wheel is in place). The work to do under the car is minimal. It can be easier to remove the slave from underneath (note, you don't have to undo the hydraulics) and there are a couple of trans to engine mount bolts that are easiest t reach from underneath. Otherwise, everything else, including the driveshaft bolts to the trans tailshaft are accessed from inside the passenger compartment.

A very important thing to remember here as well is that you have to support the rear of the engine when you seperate the trans from it. This is also very important for proper re-alignment of trans to engine when it all goes back together along with the dowels.

When buying a clutch kit, make sure you get the alignmnet tool as well. If you want to replace the cross shaft bushings, order four instead of two. You can actually fit two per side and you will increase the bushing/bearing surface and make the cross shaft more stable in the process.

Crossbolting the the fork to the shaft is also another very sound piece of advice.


Another area that often gets overlooked for slop and play is the pedal assembly. I've pulled clevis pins out of clutch pedal assemblies that looked like miniautre crankshafts! The bushings in the pedal assembly are also often overlooked. ANY play in the TR6 clutch system translates into problems. Don't overlook this area.



Bottom line though Dale is that with everything else that you have done, this is not beyond your ability. Daunting the first time yes but you can do it. Now, if you want to get the car out of Wendy's sight for a while (and yours as well), I understand getting it to the 'real' mechanic. However I have seen 'real' mechanics screw up these cars becasue they... A)Have a poor attitude torwards them because they are unfamiliar with them. B)They rush because they don't want it taking up there space and the rushing causes mistakes. The last can be especially true if they are tight on space as it sounds your shop is.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[LastDeadLast]

Dale,

If you can rebuild the rear suspension on the TR, you can take a tranny out, replace the clutch and reinstall it. The most difficult part of the job IMO, would be removing and reinstalling the flywheel. The easiest way would be to use an air/electric wrench. If you don't have access to one, you'll have to rig up something to keep the flywheel from turning. I used an impact wrench to take off the flywheel, and a piece of wood wedged tightly to install it and re torque the bolts....

If I may suggest, if you do decide to get a new flywheel, get an aluminum unit from TSI for a stock motor, this is probably one of the best upgrades that you can do... it really wakes up a TR's acceleration, with no adverse drive ability affects. Just a thought.

 

[martx-5]

I agree, I'd rather do the tranny on a TR any day then mess with the rear. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

 

[Harry_Ward]

[ QUOTE ]

I have a very sticky" clutch.

[/ QUOTE ]


Define this better for all of us will ya Dale? When my Harley sits for a while the clutch freezes to the flywheel. I actually have to start it in neutral push it down the road and pop it in 2nd gear then hold the clutch lever in disengaged as it drives itself down the road. I then put on the brakes slowly to unstick the clutch. So is it stuck engaged or disengaged?

 

[Tinster]

Ok Harry: I drive a clutch every day. Always have.

The clutch in the TR makes a sound- the last 1 1/2 "
when I push it to the floor. A soft sound between
a sigh and whine. (I hear it only with the engine off.

When I let the clutch out, nothing seems to happen
for the first inch or so. I have to increase rpms
and then at about two inches out, the clutch suddenly
grabs and I lurch forward, like a beginner clutch driver.

I read on the internet this is a classic failed throw out
bearing in a TR clutch. I replaced both the master and
slave cylinder and it had no effect at all. Still sticky.

Switching gears I hear the familiar, solid metallic
"click" that I remember from my youth.

as always,

d

 

[martx-5]

This almost sounds like the "classic clutch fork pin is shearing" syndrome. If it is, the tranny still has to come out. When it's out, carefully inspect where the clutch fork attaches to the operating shaft in the bell housing. There is a square-headed pin that locates the fork on the shaft that has a habit of shearing, or partially shearing off. Very often, because of the way the pin shears, it will still allow some limited movement of the throw out bearing, and may be responsible for the herky-jerky motion you're getting. Of course, a new pin needs to be put in. Plus, as insurance against this happening again, an extra roll pin, or something similar should be added.

 

[Brosky]

1. TRF Magic Kit comes with clutch alignment tool. If they don't send one, I'll send you mine. Kit also comes with new bolts for pressure plate to flywheel. Order new flywheel bolts from TRF.

2. Setup an appointment with a local machine shop capable of checking the flywheel for cracks (magnafluxing)and machining (resurfacing) it for you as soon as you get it off the engine. Turn around should be less than a day, especially if they know you are coming.

3. While the flywheel is off, replace rear main seal and install new pilot bushing in rear of crankshaft.

4. Do you have a 1/2" drive torque wrench? If not, you will need access to one for proper flywheel bolt torquing. You can use a 3/8" for the pressure plate bolts.

5. Order a new transmission mount ind install it while out.

6. Check auto listings on the island and see if anyone does driveshaft work, such as balancing or rebuilding. They can probably pop the u-joints in and out for you if you're not comfortable doing it.

Refer to the picture of the clutch installation on my site to see what you need to do. One of the biggest time consuming portion is removing the carpeting and seats. You've done almost all of that already.

https://www.74tr6.com/clutchreplacement.htm

Disconnect battery before anything else!!!!

 

[Tinster]

Thanks Paul!

"a local machine shop capable of checking the flywheel
for cracks (magnafluxing)and machining (resurfacing)"

And where is it that I live ?
Yeah, THAT's gonna be possible here.

But thanks for the tip.

d

 

[Brosky]

Are these guys near you?

https://www.kennicon.com/Services/Turning.htm

 

[startech47]

That new Aluminum flywheel will do the trick. Justification complete. Phil

 

[Brosky]

Phil, that is really the ultimate solution and would be the best if Dale wants to invest in it.

 

[Tinster]

Paul, not really- it would require a
charted plane.

I would invest in the new flywheel no problem,
except I have made a promise that if the Crypt Car
has a shot engine, all forward attempts and
$$ input stops and the car gets crushed.

I have zero reason to believe the car has a reliable
engine. Everything else has been completely broken down
and worn out or FU by the PO..

Bluntly, I have spent almost $17,000. in repairs
and parts in the past 9 months ...
all to accomplish a 4 mile drive to a local gas station.

There must be a way I can determine if the engine is shot?
I am afraid I may have put the cart way ahead of the horse
by asking about installing a new clutch.

Any ideas how I go about determining if the engine
is shot? I guess that should have been my post today.

thanks,

d