Inner tubes needed??

[Money_Pit]

When I purchased my 60 spoke Dayton wire wheels I'm sure I had the choice of purchasing tubeless wheels of which I did. Even though they're tubeless do most people still run tubes in them and since were on the topic of wire wheels I recall something being mentioned of sealing the end of the spokes? Was this for ease of cleaning or what????

As always appreciate the feedback!

DT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/canpatriot.GIF

 

[Keoke]

Well I think if you want to be absolutely safe put tubes in the tires. The best tube available IMOP is the Classico sold by Moss. Sealing the ends of the spokes keeps grease, if you use it, on the spline hub's from creeping out on to the spokes. Similarly, if the spoke nipples are sealed wheel cleaning acid and water can not gain access to the hubs.---Fwiw--Keoke

 

[shorn]

I have Dayton 60 spoke wire wheels that I purchased in May, 2003 from British Wire Wheel with Vredestein tires. I have run them tubeless the whole time without a problem. That's four seasons of driving approx. 2,500 miles a year. I don't have to add air any more often than my American daily drivers with tubeless tires. That said, I am sure tubes would provide an extra degree of security against an air leak. Oh yeah, someday if and when I need to tighten the spokes on a wheel, that will produce a leak.

 

[Keoke]

Those sealed wheels can not beat a tube providing security against an air leak.---Keoke- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif

OH My Gosh Yes!! I forgot about that, best you do not tighten any spokes.-- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Wana]

I, too recently got new Dayton 60-spoke wheels and Vredestein tires. I chose to use tubes even though the wheels are "tubeless". I just couldn't figure out the advantage to not using tubes and like the extra layer of security against leaking. I would love to know why folks who choose not to use tubes do so?

 

[Money_Pit]

Keoke

I'll be using Copaslip on the hubs so I'm hoping I shouldn't have to seal the end of the spokes. If I should decide to seal them what should I be using for the job? and on the topic of wire wheel cleaner is their a preferred brand?


DT

 

[Keoke]

[ QUOTE ]
Keoke

I'll be using Copaslip on the hubs so I'm hoping I shouldn't have to seal the end of the spokes. If I should decide to seal them what should I be using for the job? and on the topic of wire wheel cleaner is their a preferred brand?




DT

[/ QUOTE ]

Copaslip is the Bee's knees. British Wire Wheel or Hendix both sell the preferred one step acid wire wheel cleaner. Seal the spoke nipples inside the hub with GE silicone. You will still need to clean them!--Fwiw--Keoke-AZ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cowboy.gif

 

[Money_Pit]

With this much good free advice why wouldn't anyone not want to own one of these cars!

Thanx

DT

 

[Keoke]

[ QUOTE ]
With this much good free advice why wouldn't anyone not want to own one of these cars!

Thanx

DT

[/ QUOTE ]

Cuz he be able to read between the lines.--Keoke- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[SHG]

and every so often, when you're running tubeless, you come out on a beautiful day, all ready to take a drive, and a tire is just flat. Just plain old flat. No particular reason. It just is. And so you put in a tube, and a band around the spokes, because nobody wants to come out on a beautiful day and find the tire flat.

As for the spray cleaners for the spokes, I've tried a few. And they take off some of the grime. But not all of the grime. And you're still down there with a tooth brush trying to get it all off, knowing that it will be back. There no such thing as scrubbing bubbles.

 

[Keoke]

Yep on that flat bit SHG But!

Sounds like you bee shopping a PET-CO again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Try the vendor recommended cleaners and their wire wheel brushes. Clean the wheels every time you wash the car. Complete cleaning may require removal from the car at least Twice a year.---Fwiw--Keoke

 

[Cutlass]

I've heard that running tubes in wheels designed for no tubes can result in excessive tire temperatures. Am I remembering this wrong?

 

[Keoke]

Never heard of that Cutlass. But my gut feel says its Irish Whispers. Of course these wheels are not designed to be tubeless they are just kinda bodged up to work that way.---Keoke

 

[Cutlass]

You're right. It's the tires that may be designed to be tubeless. Something about friction between the tube and the tire.

 

[Keoke]

[ QUOTE ]
You're right. It's the tires that may be designed to be tubeless. Something about friction between the tube and the tire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes that was an early problem. I can remember a few years back some tire makes had ribs inside that would wear the tube and cause heating and eventually leakage. Similarly, during that time, there was a practice of putting an inspection sticker inside the tires which would also cause tube failures. However, it seems those early discrepancies have been corrected.--Keoke

 

[Dave Russell]

Tubeless tires on spoked wheels & tubes in tubeless tires.

Aside from the problem of keeping 48 to 72 spoke holes sealed there are a couple of other considerations.

Perhaps most important; The wheel rim profile will be different on a wheel designed for tubeless use than on a rim designed for tubed use. Rim profiles for tubeless use have different seat angles & a retaining shoulder (hump) to prevent the tire from separating from the wheel during very hard cornering or side impacts. Without this retaining profile, any slight separation of rim & tire will let a lot of air out in a hurry. This is especially important if you are driving the car hard.

Most wheels designed for tube use do not have or need this retaining shoulder because slight momentary separation of the tire from the rim does not let air out of the tube.

Another consideration is, if using a tube in any rim, having a valve stem that does not move around in it's rim hole & wear the stem. There are nylon bushings that can be installed in the rim holes to provide a snug, abrasion free fit with the valve stem, if needed.

Finally, most tubeless tires have internal ribs which tend to wear the tubes. The "best" tubes, designed for use in radial tires, are of heavier construction to resist this wear. Radial inner tubes. Actually marked so on the valve stems.

As with any tube, new tubes that are slightly under sized so that they can stretch to the tire's inner profile, will prevent any wrinkles or folds in the tube which greatly increases the life of the tubes. An old tube will be permanently stretched to fit the old tire & will likely not fit a new tire as it should.

Tubeless tires have a thicker inner liner to take place of the tube. This thicker construction combined with the addition of a tube will cause the tire to run a bit hotter than if it did not have the tube. In practice, this has not proved to be a problem.

There are hundreds of tires, on spoked wheels, being run with & without tubes, each has it's proponents.
D

 

[anthony7777]

dave, good info, the main reason i dont like tubes in my tires is that you have to remove the wheel from the car and break it down to repair it,manipulating these spoke wheels does them no good and most tire shops dont have the correct machines to do this ,one may have a good reliable tire shop near thier home but what happens if ya need it fixed on the road? with a tubeless tire all ya need is some air and this-see attch. one week ago left rear- roofing nail- didnt even take the wheel of the car- took 3 minutes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/savewave.gif

 

[Dave Russell]

I guess you have a point. Maybe I'm just lucky, haven't had a flat on any of my cars, RV's, or motorcycles in the last 18 years. I do carry a good spare but haven't needed it for a long time. Can't remember ever having to do a roadside tire repair in 53 years. Don't you have a spare?
D

 

[Keoke]

Naw "D" he ain't got a unique point. The bead of the tire is already broken if the tire is flat. Leaving the wheel on the car serves as a holding fixture while you prise one side of the tire off and remove the tube. You can also check the tire with your hand for the foreign object if it is not visible from the out side. Repair the Tube reinstall, hook up your little DC powered tire pump and you are ready to go. Have done it this way on the side of the road many times. Getting to the spare can be more trouble when traveling with a loaded car than fixing the flat.--Keoke

 

[anthony7777]

[ QUOTE ]
Naw "D" he ain't got a unique point. The bead of the tire is already broken if the tire is flat. Leaving the wheel on the car serves as a holding fixture while you prise one side of the tire off and remove the tube. You can also check the tire with your hand for the foreign object if it is not visible from the out side. Repair the Tube reinstall, hook up your little DC powered tire pump and you are ready to go. Have done it this way on the side of the road many times. Getting to the spare can be more trouble when traveling with a loaded car than fixing the flat.--Keoke

[/ QUOTE ] keoke, guess ive been kucky enough not to have a tires bead ever brake from the wheel, your correct about getting to the spare, but jacking up the car-removing the tire-prising the tire-repair/replace innertube-checking the inside of the tire for foreign objects with your "hand" now thats a no-no, and doing all this on the side of the road? ah me thinks me likes my method just a little bit more, doing it your way is like one making his own wrenches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif