TR4/4A Strange Problem Fitting Inner Fender

[JCL TR4]

I am repairing my wrecked TR4 race car and have run into a problem with the LH inner fender fitment. I cut off the old inner fender which was torn up after the wreck and found a front end from a TR4 of the same year and drilled out all of the spot welds on both cars. The inner fender fits well except that the front edge where the upper valence attaches is and inch and a quarter lower than the RH side.

The frame was straightened, and is in very good shape with equal measurements from the floor on each side. I can almost measure any part of the car (frame and body) and get equal measurements on each side. But this inner fender does not measure correctly. I didn't even notice it until I tried to put the upper valence in and could tell it was lower on the LH side. I have not welded the inner fender on yet as it is going to require me to raise the front of the fender 1 1/4 inches in order to get it level. That would require me to put a large spacer under the front mounting point to the frame which makes no sense at all.

I am measuring the flat area at the tip of the inner fender to the ground, both on jack stands and on the tires. The frame is perfect. You can see where I am measuring it, and the left side is 1 1/4 higher than the right, at that point. I need to take it back to the frame shop and see if he has some idea. I wonder if the footwell is pushed in, but I don't think that explains it either. It actually looks OK.

I wondered if any restorers on here might have some idea.

Thanks

 

[malbaby]

I would be looking at the shape of the replacement inner fender from the top of the wheel arch down to the front edge.
The top of the LHS wheel arch looks level with the RHS on your pic....confirm or otherwise if this is so.
Are there any obvious creases in the LHS inner fender from the top of the arch to where it attaches to the front valance ?
Also check with a level or similar the measurements to the floor of the fender bolt holes from the top of the arch as it curves down to the front valance.
Do the top contour/bolt holes of the outer fender match the inner.
The bonnet fitment is another consideration.
Refer back after you have done the above measurements/checks for further advice.

 

[JCL TR4]

Thanks for the reply Malbaby. It looks like the distance from the fender holes to the ground starts to become more after the back of the wheel toward the front. At the hole behind the front wheel it appears to be very close, compared to where it is at the front of the inner fender. I don't see anything obvious as far as a crease or anything. It all looks pretty good.

I did talk with the frame shop and they said they straightened the dash and firewall the best they could without the rest of the body panels. He said the dash and firewall were distorted from the crash, which I knew. It actually pushed the front hoop of the roll cage up into the dash. All of that looks good to the naked eye.

I am going to take it back into them so they can make any adjustments they need to. They do restorations on bodies, not my specialty. I've done what I could, and can finish the mechanical stuff when they get this right.

 

[malbaby]

Sorry, I got the sides confused.
I should have asked about the condition of the RHS inner fender from the top of the wheel arch forward.
Does the RHS outer fender match the inner fender in shape and holes?
Is that a crease that I can see in the RHS inner?
Hard to tell from the pic...are the brackets that are attached to the chassis for the front inner fender mounts exactly the same....looks like the LHS mount is higher than the RHS?...the slope/angle appears different....bent as the result of the accident?

 

[mctriumph]

My boy, you are confused by the frame. Treat the body as a separate assembly, it is!
Set the body onto a wooden dolly(wheels are nice too). Now you can think about measuring
down to the floor. Set up the new panel and square it up. Hold in place with screws or clickos.
This is a tr3 on said dolly. With a Tr4,the body has to be carefully aligned to the frame(when done) as the
rubber mounting pads can, and do, shift the structure more than you would think.
Mad dog

 

[mezy]

you should try fitting a wing to the inner wing and see how it lines up on the A post, if the front of theinner wing is low it will not line up to the A post
Fit the wing to the A post and then see how it lines up with the inner wing, this will tell you how much lower the inner is.

 

[mctriumph]

I am repairing my wrecked TR4 race car and have run into a problem with the LH inner fender fitment. I cut off the old inner fender which was torn up after the wreck and found a front end from a TR4 of the same year and drilled out all of the spot welds on both cars. The inner fender fits well except that the front edge where the upper valence attaches is and inch and a quarter lower than the RH side.

The frame was straightened, and is in very good shape with equal measurements from the floor on each side. I can almost measure any part of the car (frame and body) and get equal measurements on each side. But this inner fender does not measure correctly. I didn't even notice it until I tried to put the upper valence in and could tell it was lower on the LH side. I have not welded the inner fender on yet as it is going to require me to raise the front of the fender 1 1/4 inches in order to get it level. That would require me to put a large spacer under the front mounting point to the frame which makes no sense at all.

I am measuring the flat area at the tip of the inner fender to the ground, both on jack stands and on the tires. The frame is perfect. You can see where I am measuring it, and the left side is 1 1/4 higher than the right, at that point. I need to take it back to the frame shop and see if he has some idea. I wonder if the footwell is pushed in, but I don't think that explains it either. It actually looks OK.

I wondered if any restorers on here might have some idea.

Thanks

Would you like some nice fiberglass rear wings? They need to be on a race car.
Mad dog

 

[JCL TR4]

My boy, you are confused by the frame. Treat the body as a separate assembly, it is!
Set the body onto a wooden dolly(wheels are nice too). Now you can think about measuring
down to the floor. Set up the new panel and square it up. Hold in place with screws or clickos.
This is a tr3 on said dolly. With a Tr4,the body has to be carefully aligned to the frame(when done) as the
rubber mounting pads can, and do, shift the structure more than you would think.
Mad dog

I cannot remove the body due to the roll cage which is of course welded to the frame in many locations. I wish I could have, but I'm not going to cut out a good roll cage to fix this problem. We'll figure it out.

 

[JCL TR4]

Would you like some nice fiberglass rear wings? They need to be on a race car.
Mad dog

I actually have some fiberglass rear fenders. I doubt I will use them though. The vintage group that we have raced with in the past, somewhat local, doesn't allow fiberglass body parts.

 

[mctriumph]

You are not that far away from Topeka .If you towed it here, I could sort it in a few hours.(when the
weather breaks) You would, of course, have to bring beer so the results could be toasted.
When Heartland Park had SCCA races, I was the guy for saving the weekend when crashes happened.
I even worked on several National champion cars(Miata's mostly) over the years.
Mad dog

 

[JCL TR4]

You are not that far away from Topeka .If you towed it here, I could sort it in a few hours.(when the
weather breaks) You would, of course, have to bring beer so the results could be toasted.
When Heartland Park had SCCA races, I was the guy for saving the weekend when crashes happened.
I even worked on several National champion cars(Miata's mostly) over the years.
Mad dog

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I have an appointment with the frame shop who also does restorations and works on all of the new one-piece cars they build these days. I'll give him a shot at it.
I put the hood on yesterday and it fits within the fenders and the dash/cowling, but there is a definite slant at the front of the car. The passenger side appears to be higher than it should at the front, and the driver's side is lower. I think he'll be able to tweak it. He didn't have the rest of the body parts as I was trying to make sure he could fix the frame and front suspension before I got too far along with the project.

We attended some pro races at Heartland Park right after they built it. I don't remember if it was Trans Am or IMSA back then. Such a shame they closed it down. I'm trying to get the car back together so I can run it at Lake Garnett in October. The car was raced there about 1964. Also Hallett is coming up on their 50th anniversary in 2026 so I'd like to run in anything they do for that. I ran the first race at Hallett in this car in 1976. My son ran Hallett in it with CVAR on the 40th anniversary.

 

[malbaby]

Did you have a look.........."Hard to tell from the pic...are the brackets that are attached to the chassis for the front inner fender mounts exactly the same....looks like the LHS mount is higher than the RHS?...the slope/angle appears different....bent as the result of the accident?"

 

[JCL TR4]

Did you have a look.........."Hard to tell from the pic...are the brackets that are attached to the chassis for the front inner fender mounts exactly the same....looks like the LHS mount is higher than the RHS?...the slope/angle appears different....bent as the result of the accident?"

Both of the pedestals are the same height from the frame, and also the ground. It would take a block about an inch and a quarter under that driver's pedestal to align the front part of the fenders. That doesn't make any sense. It looks like it isn't exactly the same as on the left side, but it is very close.
One thing I noticed was the steering rack has some slope to it. It goes down a little from the driver's side to the passenger side. Since I don't have another car to compare it to, I don't know if they had that but I doubt it. If I can verify that, I'll have them fix it.

 

[malbaby]

Something is not right as you say....I don't know how level your floor is...[Must be at least level at those pedestals]
I would start again with the measurements, with the chassis dead level....you need an accurate base line.
With the chassis level, [check chassis to floor to verify if all the garage floor is level or not].
Check to see if the main body to chassis mount spacers are all equal.
Using a longish level on top of a straight edge, check at the top of the firewall for level, then moving forward check level at the fender bolt holes line side to side....This will verify or otherwise, if the front of the LHS inner fender is in fact 1 1/4" lower than the RHS.
The steering rack should be level, therefore the rack mounts may be damaged.
Another consideration...is the replacement LHS inner fender exactly the same as the RHS both in contour and dimensions.

 

[mctriumph]

If the body must stay on the frame , I dont know if your bodyshop will be able to help
much. Modern unibody equipment doe's not "speak" full frame .
The body on a Tr4 has very little structural rigidity .If the frame is good , the body
can simply be jacked into alignment with a porta power. Level the frame to the floor for
reference. Then use force to achieve alignment, Critically on a tr4/6 the doors must be on
or you WILL lose the door aperture fit. You should have a tram gage handy also.
Mad dog

 

[JCL TR4]

If the body must stay on the frame , I dont know if your bodyshop will be able to help
much. Modern unibody equipment doe's not "speak" full frame .
The body on a Tr4 has very little structural rigidity .If the frame is good , the body
can simply be jacked into alignment with a porta power. Level the frame to the floor for
reference. Then use force to achieve alignment, Critically on a tr4/6 the doors must be on
or you WILL lose the door aperture fit. You should have a tram gage handy also.
Mad dog

Thanks Mad Dog, I figured as much. The father of the owner, now older than me, told me he did tons of TR4s back in the old days. He actually came in and helped with the frame, so I bet they can get the rest of it squared away. Just need to book the time with them.

 

[mctriumph]

Good on ya, JC. If I were a younger man I would build another race car for vintage races.
I have a tr3 that would make a good victim for such a project. Bon chance mon ami.
Mad dog

 

[JCL TR4]

Would you like some nice fiberglass rear wings? They need to be on a race car.
Mad dog

Mad dog, I was looking at my fiberglass fenders that I have and they aren't in the best shape. Not that they can't be worked over. What do you have? What kind of shape are they in and what do you want for them?

 

[mctriumph]

They were "installed"on a street car.So, some crappy bondo on the edges.
Yours for cheap.
Mad dog