BJ7 front hub shim question

[RestoreThemAll]

I installed the front hubs on my '63 BJ7. I cleaned and painted the hubs and used new bearings. For the shim selection I followed the advice that I read here on the BCF. I installed with no grease, just some light oil. I used the on/off method that worked fine. Put it together with all four sizes of shims and add/remove until its right. It came down to zero end play then remove 002. That gave just the slightest end play with the castle nut torqued to about 60lbs. It seemed perfect until I added grease. Torqued to only 30 lbs. the hub won’t even turn. Can the grease be adding that much to the shims?

 

[Keoke]

Can the grease be adding that much to the shims?
No!!,go back and retorque to your original 60# Torque.

 

[BoyRacer]

I'm confused. Are you saying you did your initial fitting with no grease in the bearings? If so, then that is wrong. But then you ask if grease is affecting the shims. Why would you be greasing the shims? What are you trying to say?

 

[steveg]

Norm Nock used to recommend shimming the bearings with the bearings oiled but not greased. Then greasing the bearings once the proper clearance had been achieved. I've used this method and it works fine.

 

[Keoke]

Yeah Steve
If you have ever tried to fit shims all greased up you know the hassle--.

 

[Keith_M]

Dale,
It sounds like you're doing it right. Setting the number of shims with only oil on the bearings is the way to go, and things really shouldn't be that different after greasing the bearings. It sounds like you maybe got your shims mixed up or didn't get the bearing seated properly. If it were me, I'd go back and start all over with just oil and reset the shims. It's a pretty important thing to get right because the strength of the stub axle depends on the proper tightness of the castellated nut.

 

[RAC68]

Dale,

As Keith indicated, I also believe you may have not seated one of the components properly (bearings, shims, or spacer). If I understand correctly, you also indicated added an additional 0.002 shim to produce end play prior to adding grease and completing the installation. The disappearance of this added spacing also makes me think that one of the components are not seated properly. Properly set, I don't believe there should be any end play and the shims and spacer should be calculated to eliminate end play at a castle nut torque of up to 60#. Remember, the 60# of torque is provided to allow the orientation of the castle nut for the insertion of the cotter pin.

Good luck,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[steveg]

Also note the stub axle is drilled at 90 degrees. This in combination with the 3 slots of the castellated nut allows for 1/6 turn adjustments. At 16 tpi, that's .010" per 1/6 turn.

 

[RestoreThemAll]

Ok. Thank you guys. I'll pull it back apart and double check the installation, checking the bearing seat, and shim arrangement.

Richard, I didn't mean to say that I greased the shims. The bearings are now greased, and weren't at trial installation. Sorry for not making that clear.

Keith, the book says to allow .002 of end play. I'm hoping that's best. I'm a back yard wish I was mechanic, and appreciate your expertise. I do not have a way to measure that perfectly. It seemed like .002 play is better than too tight?

Steve, thanks for your note about adding .010 per 1/6th turn. I was not considering that well.

Dale

 

[Keith_M]

Dale,
I'm no expert; just a backyard mechanic like you. My memory of how I did this is not perfect, but I think I just kept adding the thinnest shims (can't remember the dimension) until the thing didn't turn freely. I then removed the thinnest shim so it went back to turning freely. Whatever endplay exists at the point is what you're stuck with, but I think the less you have the better as long as it turns freely. When I greased the bearing and reassembled everything it still turned freely.

Let us know how the second attempt works out. I remember it was quite a pain to keep assembling and disassembling the thing while adding and removing shims and then re-torquing.

 

[blueskies]

I did this about a month ago on the BN7. After final assembly with the bearings greased, the hubs still turned well with the nuts properly torqued.

It sounds as if you understand the procedure. The end play is a little hard to measure accurately, even with the dial indicator that I used. The end play was easier to measure before adding the grease to the bearings, and the grease may reduce the measured end play a little or completely. However, the hub should still turn fairly easily.

One thought. Is it possible that the threads on the spindle were dry or dirty or rusty before when you test fitted it, and that they now have a little grease on them? That might allow the nut to thread on more easily and farther, which could change your torque readings? If so, the shim thickness would have to be reduced.

 

[RAC68]

Hi Dale,

Take a look at this document as it is one I have followed for quite a while (https://www.vintage-sportscar-touring.ca/technical/frontwheelbearings.html).

Good luck,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[RestoreThemAll]

"One thought. Is it possible that the threads on the spindle were dry or dirty or rusty before when you test fitted it, and that they now have a little grease on them? That might allow the nut to thread on more easily and farther, which could change your torque readings? If so, the shim thickness would have to be reduced."

The spindle wasn't rusty or dirty but it was dry when I did the fitting process. I could have gotten some grease on it when I greased the bearings. I'll watch for that when I redo.
Dale

 

[busybrit]

Let me tell you a quicker way, MGB's are the same, and I've don't many of those.

Fit the new bearing carriers, and the new greased rear bearing to the hub/brake rotor assembly. Lay it on the work bench with the rear bearing in the carrier supporting the weight of the whole assembly, at this point you can spin it around.

Drop in the spacer and few shims then the ungreased front bearing. If you can press down on the bearing and can't move the spacer, you have too many shims. Keep removing the shims until you can very slightly move the spacer. At this point you are very close if not already where you need to be.

Johnb

 

[johnea]

First you started correctly by shimming until there's no play. Then you must ADD, not remove 002" to get the recommended play.

 

[RestoreThemAll]

I had an issue with the brake rotor. Had to have the inside edge shaved before I could finish the hub install. I took it apart, cleaned most of the grease away, added one .003 shim, re-greased and reinstalled being very careful to align all correctly. There is just the very slightest of end play. Hard to even notice. I don't have any to measure the end play but this seems perfect. The other side of the car has zero end play and turns freely. Both have grease installed and are torked to 60#. As stated before I installed first with light oil. I may not have said that I also installed first without the grease seal on the hub. The feel is very different with grease and seal creating some drag. I'm comfortable that it's all correct now. Thanks again for the assist. Watching John's YouTube about MG Wheel Bearings was very helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJYIXZtnIiw

 

[Bob_Spidell]

re: "The other side of the car has zero end play and turns freely"

Not sure that's a good thing. I believe you need to allow some play to allow for metal expansion due to heat, but I'm not sure. Maybe some of the gurus (Randy?) can chime in on this.

 

[RestoreThemAll]

The side with zero end play did have slight end play until I added the grease and seal. It could be that it's just hard to feel now.

 

[Keith_M]

I have a tiny bit of play in both sides. It's almost impossible to feel with just the rotor, but it's detectable with the wheel on. Removing a shim caused the wheel to not turn freely, so I figured this is about as good as it's going to get.