T-Series 1976 midget clutch problems, please help me.

[76midge]

my name is jason, and i have a 76 midget. i am 15. i can start it in neutral, but when i push in the clutch pedal and try to shift into first gear, the gears grind. when i try to start it in first gear, with the clutch pressed in, it lurches. i know it isint the slave/master cylinders. i think the flywhell is rusted, how can i fix my car?
thanks,
Jason

 

[76midge]

does anyone know of another forum that might have people who know what to do? i am really stumped.

 

[screenprinter]

Jason,

First thing to do is don't panic - a lot of great people on this forum will help you - I'll start by giving you a few things to check.

First, How have you determined that the Master and Slave cylinder are O.K.? The master cylinder can be bad with no apparent visual signs - Same with the slave cylinder. At this point you should try bleeding the clutch system to eliminate the possibility of air in the hydraulic lines, If this improves the condition then you need to track down how air got in the system and fix it - a lot of times it's as simple as a person will let the reservoir run out of fluid and just add more fluid without bleeding the air which has invaded the system. If when you attempt to bleed it no air or fluid is expelled from the slave's bleed nipple then the master cylinder is suspect. While you're down there try to pop the dust cover off the end of the slave cylinder to see if there are signs of fluid leaking. Repair is generally by replacement - rebuild kits don't last very long and they usually fail when your putting the moves on you girlfriend, and that really isn't too cool.
Next thing to check is the condition of the flexible hose which runs from the rigid steel clutch hydraulic line to the slave cylinder - Look for signs of dry rot, cracking, pinholes, etc. These will let air invade the system and your in for a repeat performance. There is also the possibility that if the hose is very old ( like the original hose that came on the auto new) that years of exposure to brake fluid has swelled the inside passage of the hose shut and won't allow sufficient hydraulic force to operate the slave cylinder.

If all the above check out and you're fairly sure that all is in order then you proceed to the unpleasant possibilities.

Your clutch disk may be stuck to the flywheel, just like you suggested. There are a couple of ways to try and free this up. You can have an assistant sit in the car with the car in gear (but not running) and have them push the clutch pedal in and hold it to the floor - From the rear of the car rock it and release it repeatedly - like you rock a car that is stuck in the snow - If the clutch breaks loose you'll hear a fairly loud "Pop" or "PING" and that should be it.

If that doesn't work put the car in neutral and push it so the front bumper is up against something REALLY STURDY, like a brick or concrete wall, anything that is not going to move. Make sure the front bumper is right up againt the wall ( so when you do the next step it doesn't lurch forward and damage the car) get in the car, put it in gear, push in and hold the clutch pedal to the floor and turn the ignition key - The car will try to move, but can't in the process the weakest link - in this case the stuck clutch disk will go is it frees up stop the engine immediately.

Last, if none of this works you may need to pull the transmission out ( Which means pulling the engine and transmission out as a unit because you cannot remove the transmission with the engine in the car - the entire bottom is panned in - ) - once you have it out you can remove the clutch and see if the release bearing has failed, the clutch disk is stuck, the release fork is damaged or what ever else may be wrong and correct it - It would also be an opportune time to pull the flywheel off and have it surfaced - this will help avoid a sticking clutch plate in the future.

I might add that clutch plates don't generally decide to stick overnight in a car that is driven quite a bit - it usually occurs after a car has sat for an extended period.

One more thing is that sometimes if the clutch disk is worn badly the slave cylinder cannot move the operating arm far enough to release the clutch - Some people weld a piece onto the end of the slave cylinder push rod to remedie this - DON"T DO IT! This could lead to the clutch working beyond safe mechanical limits and when it does fail it tears up a bunch of stuff it shouldn't

I'm willing to bet that if you check out the hydraulics, replace anything faulty and bleed the system it'll work.

Hope this helps - other's be along soon to add their sugestions.

Good luck!!

Bob M.

 

[SilentUnicorn]

Welcome aboard Jason.


what Bob said Pretty much covers it......Nicely said Bob.


mark

 

[screenprinter]

Thanks Mark - I learn something new every day on these forums ( so I can't take all the credit)- And I thank all you guys and gals for sharing your collective knowledge.

Bob M.

 

[76midge]

under the car i can see the little thing move that the slave/master is suposed to move, and it moves about 3/4 of an inch, which it is suposed to do. i will try bleeding the system tomorrow, ir is 11:00 here so i cant now. thanks for the help,
Jason

 

[Guest]

I agree. I had a '68 Sprite with a stuck clutch one time. I put it in 1st gear and went down the street with the clutch pushed in jerking the accelerator back and forth from full throttle to idle and it came loose. It took quite a bit of power to break it loose and at least a half a block.
But the car had been sitting for a couple of years in the guys back yard with the dog using it for a dog house.
Bob

 

[76midge]

ok, if i want to do that, would i just start in 1st? i dont think i can do that. unless i can jam it into first after i push it fast enough to jumpstart it. thanks for all the help,
Jason

 

[screenprinter]

You can start it in first - you can't really jump start it and jam it in gear - The engine has to be turning to jump start it which means you can push it all day with the tranny in neutral and it won't even burp and if you try to push start it in gear all you'll get for your trouble is a double hernia - Just point it in a safe direction, strap yourself in, push the clutch pedal to the floor, yank the choke out and turn the key - It'll "lurch" just like you said, then the engine will catch and you'll take off like a mashed cat - Jerk and snatch it with the accelerator and it should break it loose - Word of caution - don't let it take you for a wild ride - if it doesn't seem like it's going to break loose limp on home and try the next possibility - removal of the unit and inspection - We want to have you around to post back and forth -

Myself, I prefer putting the front bumper against an immovable object just because it's harder for the beast to get away from you when it has nowhere to go.

Good Luck & keep us posted!

Bob M.

 

[Guest]

The whole point of starting it in 1st is that you wont be able to get it in gear with the engine already running without damage or the risk of damage. Just be sure nothing is in the way like was already said. Be ready to cut the motor off if it wont safely become unstuck or you are about to hit something.
Bob

 

[76midge]

so you are saying that i can start it in first gear? i dont know if i can do that, the battery is dead. i will have to charge the motha for like 15 hours...i am american btw. i was not going to try to jump it in neutral, i am not stupid...i was gonna force it into gear after it had enough speed to turn the engine. i will try the bleeding the system first. but if i "pump" the clutch pedal, wouldnt that make it work cause it does not make it where i can put it into gear.

 

[screenprinter]

I'm not sure I understand your last question and we're certainly not implying you're stupid - If you go about this problem in a systematic manner I'm sure you'll lick it - First thing is charge your battery, take a break and step away from the problem for a bit and then go at it fresh.

First thing I would do is bleed the system - if theres air in the lines no amount of pumping will help.

So, take a break charge your battery and then if bleeding doesn't help we'll try the next thing -

Don't worry - You'll get it!

 

[Bruce74B]

I think he said he was 15 YO guys...I don't know it he can handle a wild ride like that...no offence, Jason!

IF you have a place you can safely drive the car, do as suggested above, but before you jerk it too much, try holding in the clutch pedal and pumping the brakes sharply a few times to try to free up the rusted set.

Just be careful...keep you hands on the emergency brake lever and be prepared to yank it on and stall it to stop if you don;t have the presence to turn it off with the key.

I drove my first JEEP for a month without a clutch when I was in college and couldn't afford to replace the throwout bearing...so good luck!

Bruce

 

[76midge]

ok, it is charging, i am about to go bleed it. i will tell you how it goes. and by saying i couldnt handle the ride, what exactly did you mean?
merci beaucoup,
Jason

 

[Super 7]

I have had the clutch stick a few times since I moved to the damp Northwest. Unually, just firing it up in 1st will free it. You must hold the clutch pedal down while you do it of course. Higher gears put more strain (torque)on a clutch than lower gears do, which is why a worn out clutch which is why a slippy clutch always slips more in higher gears. My last Elan once had the clutch stuck quite badly, and I ended up having to drive it up the street in 2nd with the clutch pedal on the floor while I applied the throttle in jerks. It broke loose. That car it turned out had insufficient grease on the input shaft splines so the pressure plate and clutch did not like to move on the sahft (I found out later). I believe that that little binding agrevated the condition.

On my cars it was easy to see that the hydraulics were ok, because if you try, you can see the slave cylinder operate the lever on the yoke. You might want to get someone to press the pedal while you look, if you can.

 

[Bruce74B]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, it is charging, i am about to go bleed it. i will tell you how it goes. and by saying i couldnt handle the ride, what exactly did you mean?
merci beaucoup,
Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

I only meant that it is a pretty wild ride for an inexperienced driver...you will lack the control of disengaging the clutch while bucking the car...it is a bit unnerving to do that...be very careful and doit somewhere where you have plenty of room. No offense intended, but I do have two sons of my own and know how something that seems easy to us, should be a little intimidating to you.

Bruce

 

[76midge]

ok, i have to press the clutch and the gass in jerks at the same time? or hold the clutch while jerking the gas?
the car turns over but now it wont start. what would cause that? the gas guage read half full. it may be messed up though, so i will fill 'er up.

 

[76midge]

ok, that didnt help. i think the thing that spins to fire the spark plugs is dead...why does this happen to me? oh well, my german engineerd car is way better. it is a volkswagon karmann ghia. manual clutch, not hydraulic.