XKE - - Toyota engine / trans

[beachbumbarry]

I have a 69 XKE 2+2 with no engine / trans in it. I have an 89 Toyota Supra engine & trans (80K mi.in the car). The 200 HP engine is a Duel overhead cam streight 6 with fuel injection and a 3L. I'm loosing 1.4L in size but it weighs a lot less.
Has anyone ever done this exchange?
Do you think that the car will perform good enough?
The gas milage should be a lot better and I think that the engine is more reliable.
Now is your chance to voice your opinion on distroying the orginality of a classic car.
BarryE - /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
69 XKE
51 MGTD

 

[Steve]

Well......firstly, this is your car, and it is up to you what you do with it. Having said that, you can pick up a good OEM engine and transmission for the Jaguar for reasonable money, which will bolt right in, and will preserve the originality and thereby the value, if that is important to you. The Toyota unit will require some surgery, to what degree I don't know.

The XK engine is a reliable unit, provided the maintenance is kept up. Not the same as a Toyota, granted, but is this to be a daily driver or a weekend/nice weather car?

 

[John S Farrington]

I am a purist as far as Jaguar mechanics go; I dont believe in Jagrolets. The 4.2 liter DHC by Jaguar is a formidable performer and can be made to be very reliable with selective upgrades. It is also beautiful in original design. However since you are experimenting with a 2+2 body and a Japanese motor, your sins are minor my son: go to it with my blessings.

 

[PC]

To some extent the "originality" is already compromised since the motor/trans are missing to begin with. So the real answer is whether to put some originality back or to make it a driver without any pretense of historical significance.

If you aren't into "the history thing" there's no emotional reason not to go with something like the Toyota. The choice would be primarily technical.

From that perspective there are few thoughts:

I can't say how 200 Japanese horses from 1989 compare to 265 British horses from 1969 but my guess is that you'll lose some performance (perhaps not a lot).

The Jag is a precisely balanced car. If the Toyota motor is significantly lighter there may be handling and front end "float" problems.

An E-Type's engine bay is not as simple as America cars of that era. It's likely to take considerable modification of either the motor or the car to make it fit. (Modifying the car instead of the motor really would be "destroying originality" while modifying the motor to just "drop in" would allow it to be undone later.)

It would probably take less time and money to acquire Jag pieces than to modify either the motor or the car.

An E-type has a market value. Should you decide to sell it you stand a good chance of selling it for something like others sell for.

A Jagota has no market value, zero. It would sell for whatever you could arrange with a buyer, no way of predicting what that may be.


PC.

 

[John S Farrington]

Pc's observation that the Jag is balanced and there might be a problem created by a lighter motor is valid. When the E type was new (1960) the factory went through great efforts to certify that the new Jaguar could acheive exactly 150 MPH. In the trial runs that pursued, the gentelmen from Coventry discovered that the basic wing shape of the E type body had a tendency to float at high speeds on the front end. Very disconcerting for the prototype of a new era of high speed spo9rts cars. I would not think that the Toyota 6 would be able to push the 2+2 into the realm of 150 MPH so I wouldnt worry about that problem. On the positive side, your torsion bar front suspension can easily be adjusted to compensate for the lighter load on the front.

 

[michalotti_tr]

Another point to consider: The Toyota engine in question (a 7MGE according to the picture) is notorious for head gasket problems (or so I'm told by Toyota experts)

 

[Simon TR4a]

Aside from any practical considerations, I think it would be a shame to do what you propose; there must be 4.2 litre Jag engines around, even if you have to use one from a saloon that is in a lower state of tune. The Jag engine, for me, is a great part of the appeal of the car and its soul.
However, as has been pointed out, it is your car, and your choice.
Simon.

 

[Bruce Bowker]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a 69 XKE 2+2 with no engine / trans in it. I have an 89 Toyota Supra engine & trans (80K mi.in the car).


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do it.

Bruce

 

[Roger]

In place of one of the all-time classic engines you want to put . . .what?
Don't do it!

 

[Cottontop]

XKE - - Toyota engine /

There is a web site for modified Jags. https://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps/

They have an active discussion forum and they might be able to give you some insight.

My feeling is that you would quickly make a $10,000 car out of a $25,000 car.

IMHO, I have a very nice V8 modified big Healey that is worth about 1/2 of what it would be worth if it was stock, but I started with a $500 car in 1974.

https://www.ntahc.org/modifiedhealeys/Photos/1Moran/FullStoryAll1.html

I wouldn't do it

Tim

 

[mattb]

I for one would never consider using anything but a Jaguar engine in a truly rare and classic Jaguar. An Etype 2+2 though... it's close, but not rare enough for me to be concerned. I think that inline Toyota six with a 5 speed would make for a really nice conversion. You might have to deal with the weight issue. And it may not be more reliable than a good old Jag XK engine, but what the heck... it's a 2+2, and its already missing its engine.

I don't mean to sound insulting, but as it is, your car isn't worth much... if you do a good job with the conversion, and do as little permanent stuff as possible (such that a Jag motor can be fitted later if you or someone wants)... you won't be hurting the value much. Possibly not at all.

All that said, the reliability issues with Jaguars do not generally lie in the motors. Especially the XK motors. They are **** near bullet proof. If you want to make an old Jaguar more reliable, start with everything EXCEPT the motor...

-Matt
'53 120 FHC

 

[Bruce Bowker]

[ QUOTE ]
I An Etype 2+2 though... it's close, but not rare
I don't mean to sound insulting, but as it is, your car isn't worth much...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet.

 

[JamesWilson]

PC's remarks are spot-on target.

While you may already have the engine and think it will be a cheap option I'd encourage you to think about the net costs of selling it and buying the/an appropriate Jag set up. It may cost more, or maybe not.

But the time, effort and expense (think of the extra costs of altering the driveshaft for one thing) of cobbling together the conversion and the potential loss in the value of the car vis-a-vis the standard probably make the economics of the conversion favor not doing it.

The car and engine were designed to work together so you may end up with a poor performing, unbalanced handling and unsaleable dog that you don't even like yourself.

I wouldn't be bothered much about the originality for the car isn't particularly rare, but it could still be made unattractive....

 

[tr6lover]

i would say not to do that conversion also. you will most likely lose a lot of torque and kinda defeat the purpose of owning one of the all time best sports cars. where are you located? i have a jaguar 4.2 engine that i need to get rid of cheap. you would then just need to get a tranny. if you look around nearby i bet you would find a jaguar xj6 in a junk yard with a cheap engine and an entire fuel injection set up if thats the way you wanted to go. look for a 79-86 jaguar xj6. contact me if interested in the engine. i live in rhode island
Randy

 

[mattb]

Is the Toyota transmission you have a 5 speed? As I recall, someone out there sells a conversion for perhaps that very gearbox that allows it to mate to a XK engine... perhaps that would be a good way to go. get a cheap 4.2 engine, and use your Toyota gearbox...

Might be a very happy compromise to the situation...

-Matt

 

[AngliaGT]

I agree - there's nothing like a real Jag.
Even a 2+2 has style.I'd be dissapointed if I saw a Jag
at a gas station,& the bonnet was opened to reveal a ...
...Toyota engine.A big letdown.
There's nothing like a properly detailed Jag 6 cylinder!
I can do without some of the owners however.I'm refering to
the ones who look down to you because you're driving a Cortina,MG,Triumph,etc.That's there problem.

- Doug

 

[beachbumbarry]

Thank you all for your input. I plan on using the XKE for a daily driver. The engine should fit without any modifications to the E - engine bay. When I bought the car the bonet (entire front sheetmetal) is from another E-type, and not attached, not sure it's a 69. It's just a primered shell. I love the shape for the XKE and want to get it on the road. The car was sitting for 18 years and the gas tank is full of tar like stuff. There are a lot of other problems with the car - so I'm going to do what I need to, to get it on the road.
BarryE - /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[John S Farrington]

I also advise an XK straight 6 for your 2+2. Either carburetor (dual or triple) arrangement would be off the shelf and bolt on. You will probably pay about $1000 more if you come by the triple arrangement and the dual ZSs are more than adequate for a 2+2 I would advise not to consider a fuel injection since you will have a physical fit problem around the front space frame members that would be difficult.

 

[Exotexs]

the last suggestion by Matt is the best so far since trannys are upgraded all the time. But a toyota engine? just because it is available? yuk, sorry but, I wouldn't even RENT a toyota. But hey, it's your property, you are allowed to destroy it as you please! Having said that, I know some people put V8 engines in XJ Jags, they are called "Lumps", but never have I heard of lumping an XK-E. It seems to me that you will have to change the engine mountings, and that's where the destruction begins. Before you know it, you have an unfinished project you gave up on, and I can already see the Ad: "For Sale: unfinished Jaguar XK-E project, 200HP Toyota engine and 5 speed tranny. Reliable and great gas mileage when/if YOU get it done! Cannot finish due to personal reasons", somebody help me move this refrigerater! (just kiddin'). Ex

 

[Bob_Muzio]

Aside from the originality, value, etc. issues there is another one to consider and that is a safety issue. The E-type is of monocoque construction, essentially the front frame rails which support the engine and suspension is bolted to the body tub. These rails are made of a particularly strong Reynolds steel which cannot be merely cut and then rewelded. There is a process that must be adhered to if that is done. That being said if the engine doesn't fit without a need to modify the frame rails don't do it as you might find yourself going down the road with only half of a car.
Bob muzio