TR2/3/3A Tr-2 Clutch Problem

[Redoakboo]

I just discovered that when I installed the new slave cylinder, I mounted the black plate on the wrong side. After wasting the day correcting my mistake, I do have rod sitting where it should be.

New problem. When I tried to bleed the slave cylinder I have no fluid pressure from the clutch side of the master cylinder. The brake side is fine. It is a new MC?
When I pump the clutch it goes all the way to the floor; no resistance? When I try to bleed the slave cylinder, no fluid enters my bleed jar? No lines appear to be leaking?

Dick

 

[CJD]

On a new or rebuilt master you must prime it. That is done by filling with fluid, but porting it back around into the reservoir, and pumping fully and consistently until the air expels. It is also possible to mis-adjust the rod into the master so the fluid port is never uncovered when the pedal is released. When that happens the fluid cannot enter the cylinder.

The initial problem of the slave being on the wrong side of the plate should have been obvious when you set the slave rod adjustment. You may want to review the adjustment procedure to ensure you fully understand how to set the free play correctly, or the system will not work.

 

[Redoakboo]

Before I noticed the incorrect installation of the slave cylinder, at least I had pressure in the line to move the lever back and forth. I had to disconnect the line from the slave cylinder to get the black plate on the right side . After I got everything back in the correct position, I can't get fluid into the slave cylinder now. I tried to bleed the slave cylinder but could not get any fluid behind the piston? The petal just goes to the floor with no resistance. The piston seems to be stuck in the back position. Would it help to disconnect the line and blow air to try and move the piston out? The line pressure from the master cylinder is apparently not strong enough to move the S.C. piston.

 

[Redoakboo]

I would unhook the spring then push the guts back in the slave to the end of the piston by hand and set assembly linkage with a very little play more like a slight click so that there is some play and then try that to see if the clutch works without the spring. If it does, hook the spring up and see if the spring stops the travel and the clutch from working. If it does, then try a different spring. Some cars do not have springs.

The adjustment on the clutch is like 1/8 of an inch of slop in a hydraulic system without pressure on the system ( kind of like a brake system just sitting there), and I believe the spring is there in hopes the hydraulic linkage system from its own weight does not push the rod onto the TOB and cause it to drag a tiny bit some, but again I think they drag some. At least that is what I think I hear when the car is in neutral and running. If the spring is wrong, it acts like a steel rod at some point and will not let the rod out.

I have everything set up right now and can get full movement of the lever. When I pushed in the piston it is now apparently stuck and pressure from the MC won't push it back out so can't bleed it. Clutch just goes to the floor with no resistance. I am going to disconnect the line to the SC and use air to try and push it back out, so I can bleed it?

Dick

 

[sp53]

Well glad you are making head way plus I did plan to lift my car today and get the movement number for you Dick; it sounds like you are out of fluid. Do you have a Girling or a Lockheed master cylinder? I guess they could have the same travel, but I am not sure.

 

[Redoakboo]

I have a Girling rear system but the MC is a new double from Moss. I had pressure at the SC, before I disconnected the line and pushed the piston all the way back. When i now try to bleed, not enough pressure to push the piston back out. Think air will do it?

Dick

 

[sp53]

The slave cylinder is so simple in construction that to me it sounds more like the master cylinder. Usually the slave cylinder guts will fall right out when the rod is removed, either by gravity or slight pressure from the master. You can pressurize the system at the filler cap with an air valve fitting put onto the filler cap. I built one once with an old filler cap, but never used it. I feel your pain; I have fought this problem before a few times.

 

[sp53]

I think John’s suggestion on the master are what I would do now.

 

[CJD]

You should never have to release the line to remove pressure. That is a sign that the valving in the master is bad, or the master cylinder piston is not fully returning to the "out" position. A third, less likely cause, would be a crimp or blockage in the line or hose.

 

[malbaby]

With your initial post I thought you had an internal clutch problem as 2" of SC rod travel should be more than enough to disengage the clutch.
Your latest problem looks to be MC related, assuming that the MC had enough fluid in it and did not "run dry" during your efforts.

 

[Redoakboo]

You are absolutely right! The clutch side of the NEW MC has no pressure at all. The clutch rod I can move in and out with no resistance.

Guess the Slave is O'K. Hate to take that MC off but, that would be the easiest way to rebuild it?

 

[Redoakboo]

My TR-2 is a 54 and the rear end & brakes have been changed to the Girling System. I bought a after market, I assume, master cylinder. Will the rebuild kit be the same as that for the Lockeed ?

Dick

 

[Graham H]

You have no fluid in the line, the SC piston rest position is all the way in as the fluid pushes it out to disengage the clutch. You don't need to put air into the line, the idea is to get the air out, have you checked the fluid level in the master cylinder?

Graham

 

[CJD]

We need a bit of clarification. Are you using the TR2 cast iron, double master cylinder or the newer TR3 cast aluminum separate brake and clutch masters? If you have the double, how are you routing the lines to the reservoir?

Off hand it sounds like your master cylinder piston is jammed fully in and is not extending back out. If that is the case, you are only moving the rod, and not the piston.

 

[Redoakboo]

I removed the MC and took it apart, the TR-2 cast iron double. The piston on the clutch side was jammed in the back. I finally blew it out with my compressor. Will order repair kit for for the MC, the one listed for the TR-2 double.

Hopefully this will solve the SC problems.

Dick

 

[sp53]

Dick it sounds like your master cylinder is out of adjustment. I would check that before I took it apart. There is an internal hole in the bore of the cylinder that lets fluid into the master cylinder housing to push fluid out. If the rod for the master cylinder does not open enough at the hole no fluid gets in. Try readjusting the rod length at the master so that there is just a click of free play on the rod. The tr2 is different style than a tr3 and I have never rebuilt a tr2, but I think that is what John is suggesting also.

Steve

 

[Redoakboo]

Steve,

I had a little less then 1/16th of an inch gap free play on both rods.

Dick

 

[Banjo]

My bet is there is still a small amount of air in the system. I have been known to bleed the master cylinders carefully while unbolted so I could tilt the housing this way and that to try and get out stubborn bubbles. Same with the slave. I have fought hours, make that days, with TR6s. for some reason they are miserable!!
Otherwise colbtr has stated a common issue that can drive one up the wall. As Colin said, The pin that keeps the fork from rotating on the clutch activation shaft is known to shear. If you are at all uncertain about the condition of that, check it now.

 

[Redoakboo]

I will follow your recommendation on bleeding the MC before I install. I think that pin is O.K. I can move the lever forward and back with my hand, easily. If when everything is set up again, and it won't go into gear, I will be forced to remove the b#&)n% transmission.

 

[sp53]

If I remember correct—because-- it has been a while, but to replace the TOB the pin bolt needs to be removed, so I doubt if yours is broken. The TOB is pressed into a sleeve and to get the sleeve off-- the shaft the fork needs to go forward and for that to happen the pin bolt needs to be removed and put back.


Sounds to me like you needed to sort the slave mounting, and now you have that, and I am surprised your new master was defective. Anyways, this time it should bleed out better. Gravity is your friend also; I would put a hose and container with some fluid in the container on the slave zerk fitting and open the zerk and bleed that way; pump with complete slow and even strokes. You only need to tighten zerk when you want to feel for pressure and add fluid often

Priming is good also

Steve