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Still won't start! ARGH! Do you think....

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OK, to be clear, to confirm whether the problem is (at least in part) fuel delivery,

1) disconnect fuel supply hose at the carb

2) place end in mason jar

3) have someone crank the car for a set period (i.e. 15 seconds)

4) see how much gas you've got, do some quick math, and you've figured out what GPM (or litres per minute, up here) you're getting.

That will certainly help with the remote diagnosis...
 
Thanks guys. Spoek ot Blane at Moss today in tech support. He offered some extremely helpful advice and really knows his stuff. TOld me that the car actually starts off of fuel left in the carburetor first since the crankshaft doesn;t get going at full speed until the pump sends some into the lines. So...I am going to look/feel under my Zenith carb. If its clean or it smells like gas, then the carb is leaking some fuel and it is bone dry inside. If its bone dry then no priming, no priming means nothing to burn. Nothign to burn means crankshaft don't get up to speed and get the mechanical fuel pump moving. NO moving and no gas..hence we starving! He did say, :If you drive it on Tues. afternoon and you can;t start it Wed. morning, then the gas is probably leaking from the carb. My carb has an O ring on the bottom he says that has been known to leak. The carb is from '79 for pete's sake! lol....Let's see wat happens when I get in tonight. I think I remember spraying carb cleaner over the outside of the carb. I wonder if i helped to increase the leak by removing all the grease...
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]he has a 79. which would not have a ticking fuel pump.[/QUOTE]

....& I knew he had a 1500 with a Zenith! - I apologize...I made that post after spending 12 hours overnite in the simulation center & just dummied up!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]My carb has an O ring on the bottom he says that has been known to leak.[/QUOTE]

That's true on some of the Zenith carbs....when you feel up underneath your carb, right in the center bottom of it, you'll feel a round raised area about the size of a quarter...I think that's where he's talking about...only way I know to solve it is disassemble the carb.
 
Only problem with that analysis is that the fuel pump is quite capable of pumping once the engine starts cranking. It may take a few seconds longer, but rest assured, the pump will get fuel up to the carb just by cranking it.

If the carb is leaking, you'll want to fix that for sure; the 75-79 models have been known to start engine fires since the catalytic converter and exhaust header are right below the carburetor.

By the way, Zeniths really don't like having carb cleaner sprayed in them since it tends to destroy the rubber diaphragm. I'd be very careful about spraying that stuff anywhere near it. If the diaphragm gets a hole in it, saying the car runs poorly would be an understatement.
 
cripes...well, he did give me a gentleman to call to redo the carb. Anyone else have any recommendations since they do not make them anymore? Would there be an equivlent carb that is made or something high performance I an just swap in?
Lou

PS> AGAIN THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR THEIR FEEDBACK! WITHOTU IT I'D BE COMPLETELY IN TROUBLE!!
 
Joker, you already in trouble. The problem is that we all in trouble with you.
 
Joe Curto would be the guy to send it to for re-do. He's in your neck of the woods. Hap Waldrop, Acme (member here) would be another, just further South...

sparkydave hit it with the pump: even if the O-ring at the bottom of the floatbowl IS leaking, the fuel pump (being new) should fill the thing back up in 15 seconds of spinning the engine on the starter. If the ring is leaking you will be able to tell after spinning it up by reaching under the carb body and bringing back a gas-soaked hand.

I was concerned over the ether for the reason stated above: it EATS things in a Zed-S unit. The diaphragm may now be scrap. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif
 
Easy to check the diaphragm without too much effort - what, 4 screws?
 
yup. Remove the damper, off with its "bell".
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]My carb has an O ring on the bottom he says that has been known to leak.[/QUOTE]


this is $11.00 through moss or VB. i having the same problem out of mine right no in my 75. It very noticable when leaking though cause it leaks right on the header.

So does the car have Fire. i just started reading this thread and may have missed coversation of the fire. if so have you tried direct feeding gas into carb. i like to do this using a spray bottle (windex bottle) and some gas and spray it into the throat of the carb. the carb should run as long as there fuel in the there. usally about 10 seconds. if that the case. revert back to the fuel pump. Just a thought
 
Yeah, "up there" someplace he stated the iggy spark was good and he swuffed some ether in it and it lit right off. Fuel supply is the "prime suspect" here.

That O-ring can be had for pennies at NAPA or other supplier, but ya GOTTA know what size it is. Some Hylomar filmed on it can help seat it with carb in-situ too. Just not a job for a novice, IMO. The concern (from my end) would be repeated application of "starter fluid" has compromised the diaphragm and BJ is a neophyte about these ZS carbs.

If it weren't a "long distance" diagnosis I'd be sayin' bench the carb, go thru it and rebuild it with a kit from Curto. We are attempting to get to whether the pump or related bits (supply line suckin' air, etc.) may be the culprit of the no-start condition... but again, the carb has been exposed to ether.


We just need to establish the terminology and gain info at a more measured pace. A manual is the most urgent thing here, IMO.
 
darn it..shoulda known to saty away from that Ether stuff...ARGH!!
 
Blane mentioned I should get a vacuum tool (I forgot waht it is called) which I can hook to the end of the fuel supply line to the carb and see if it is pumping properly. I did reach under the carb last night and it was a bit dirty. Howver, I did find a spot under the car of dirt and perhaps gas about the size of a football. However, I am thinking that was the remnants of sprayign the carb woith carb cleaner and all of the stuff coming off. TOnight I will investigate this dirty stuff and see what it may be!

Lou
 
No fancy-schmancy tool needed to check the pump supply, Lou... just a Mason jar (or better: a metal soup can) and someone to turn the key (in neutral, please!) to spin the engine on the starter for fifteen or twenty seconds. Disconnect the line AT the carb and AIM it into the can. If the supply line spurts fuel with the engine spinning the pump is workin'. If not, we need to SYSTEMATICALLY go toward the problem. Seems your lines are clear, but there may be opportunity for air to get into the supply side someplace. The pump can't overcome an air leak, so that's just ONE possible answer.
 
I;m with Doc on this one, A deterministic approach is needed here. one step at a time. back a couple of pages you mentioned the screw thru the fuel line and how you patched it, make sure your repair is solid and not sucking any air.

mark
 
"Players, PLACE YER BETS!" /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
 
AHH!! excellent. Th fuel line is clamped on tight as can be and supposely the size is a dead on match. Would anyone care to say replacing that metal fuel line is a good idea regardless if it is the problem or not?
 
I should say the PATCH is clamped on tight. I have the fuel line embedded within that line about 2-3 inches on each side. I made sure it was inside tight. No leakage from what I can se on the ground or at the line.
 
if there is no fuel in the line you can be sure it wont leak. if it was sucking air then it might prevent the pump from picking up fuel and sending it to the carb. from what you describe it sounds like your repair may be ok.

have you tried docs sugestion of pulling the line at the carb and spinning the engine (with the coil wire removed), to see if you get fuel coming to the carb?

mark
 
mark,

gonna do that tonight. Definitely. Gte you guys an answer int he am! Thanks!!
 
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