TR2/3/3A Starting up an engine that hasn't ran for a while.

[bigjones]

Hi folks,

I seem to remember some advice about starting up an engine that hasn't been run for a while. The advice is to pour in a teaspoon of motor oil down each plug hole. The theory is, I suppose, that you need to oil up the piston rings to stop them from sticking.

A couple of years back, I actually tried this and I got a seriously large cloud of black smoke coming out of the tail pipe.

Now I'm in the same predicament, with the engine not being run for a year and a quarter. Should I put in 1/2 tsp and leave it a week to soak down past the rings? Maybe 1/2 tsp of 5-30w instead of 20w-50. Or just fire 'er up.

I have another little problem (clutch reservoir ran dry - I'm saving that for another post) ) that prevents me from pushing the car around in gear.

Cheers!

bigjones

 

[NutmegCT]

What's the verdict? Plugs wet? or is no fuel reaching the plugs?

 

[TomMull]

It would seem the "chokes" are at least part if not all of the problem. I know that my TR3 won't start cold without some choke. The SUs are a bit unique in that the richening of the mixture is done by actually moving the jets. The jets will need to be cleaned polished and re-sealed at least. (Polish the jets even if you get new ones). The linkage can be a bit of a problem too but getting the jets to move freely is essential. They should not leak either. The carburetors will need to be removed and disassembled. Not a quick fix bet not really difficult. Use the Service manual in the link that Tom M posted above and post any questions here.
(I've had good luck with Tom Bryant's viton seals > FAQs <).
Tom

 

[bigjones]

Well folks, here is a new twist. I was all set to test the wet/dry plug issue but the car actually started (for about 2 seconds). This was with the air cleaners off. I pulled the choke button out to keep it idling but that (apparently) cut the engine (or it was going to die anyway). I need to get better photos of the plugs before and after, as I couldn't really tell if they were wet or not.

Let me report back later.

PS. Just thought on, could the engine fire up because of residual starting fluid?

 

[TomMull]

Starting fluid is pretty volatile and I doubt would be a factor after a few minutes. But I don't really know. I'm going with the choke idea at this point but could be dead wrong of course.
Try this: Reach down under the carbs and pull the choke link rod between the two carbs backward. Watch the levers that pull the jets down. They should move a quarter inch or more. Then see if they move the same distance by pulling the choke cable. That may take a helper. If you get the jets to go down, hold them that way with the cable. Use grips if you don't have a cable lock on the choke knob (turns to the right).
Try the starter that way.

Some of the old timers I knew back in the early sixties analyzed the plugs like DNA. They peered at them, sometimes with one eye, rubbed them with their fingers, smelled them, spit on them and a few even toughed them to their tongues. And nine out of ten times at least, the got the right answer. I never got that knack.

 

[bigjones]

...pull the choke link rod between the two carbs backward...

Tom, you sure that's correct?
Pulling the cable would be pulling the cable forward.
Pushing the cable would be pushing the cable backward.

Either way I couldn't get the jets to move down.

You got a chuckle from me about the old timers!

 

[NutmegCT]

So ... what's the result of the wet vs dry test? Is fuel reaching all the cylinders?

 

[TomMull]

Sorry, perhaps a picture would help.
You would be operating the choke and ignoring the cable. Pull the rod, left arrow, back. The lever, right arrow should move the jet down 1/4 inch or more.
Here is the link from this forum for the picture: Choke mechanism

 

[bigjones]

Tom,
Thanks for the clarification and the picture.
That makes sense.
Unfortunately, I didn't have time to try it out before the tow truck arrived. (I'm getting the clutch cylinders looked at because the reservoir ran dry. Long story)
I'll post whatever the repair shop says.
Cheers for now.

 

[bigjones]

Well, it turns out that the problems were stale gasoline and spark getting to the plugs.
The shop, where I flat-bedded the car to, said that the pertronix connection was loose.
It also needs changing the gasoline because it had been idle for so long.

My theory is that the online spark tester indicated it was getting spark but not enough spark for her to run.
Does that make any sense?

Anyways, many thanks to all you kind folks who responded. Onward and upwards, and merry Christmas to all.

Bigjones

 

[PAUL161]

For Inside the dry cylinders, first WD-40 is a water displacement, not a lubricant. For a situation of dry cylinders, I use Marvel Mystery Oil sparingly as a pre-lubricant. PJ

 

[CARSINC]

Hi folks,

I seem to remember some advice about starting up an engine that hasn't been run for a while. The advice is to pour in a teaspoon of motor oil down each plug hole. The theory is, I suppose, that you need to oil up the piston rings to stop them from sticking.

A couple of years back, I actually tried this and I got a seriously large cloud of black smoke coming out of the tail pipe.

Now I'm in the same predicament, with the engine not being run for a year and a quarter. Should I put in 1/2 tsp and leave it a week to soak down past the rings? Maybe 1/2 tsp of 5-30w instead of 20w-50. Or just fire 'er up.

I have another little problem (clutch reservoir ran dry - I'm saving that for another post) ) that prevents me from pushing the car around in gear.

Cheers!

bigjones

My 1275 engine has been sitting for two years. Here's how I plan to get ready for start up. There are no fluids in the engine.

1. Remove spark plugs.
2. Remove the head. Add a very small amount of Kroil around each cylinder wall
3. Clean up the block and head.
4. Rotate the engine to TDC on number one cylinder.
5. Install new timing mark and pointer from Speedwell Engineering.
6. Set static timing.
7. Replace head with Black Payen head gasket from Ol' Phartz Parts.
8. Torque head to factory specifications.
9. Add oil and prime the oil pump. Replace plugs.
10. Start engine dry, no water. Check for oil pressure.
11. Run engine until the head is warm, not hot. Let engine sit for 24 hours. This will activate the sealant on the Payen head gasket.
12. Add coolant, start engine, adjust timing and carbs per manual.

 

[mctriumph]

Poor storage of a good car is terrible. Stable in the fuel tank is critical to say the least. stale gas
is hard to get rid of since it doesnt burn well and stinks. Hard to recycle.
Pull the plugs and add some oil or ATF to each cylinder. When you "wake it up" change your oil
and spin the engine without plugs till the pressure is up!!!!
I am currently cursing a former owner of a 61 I bought. This PDB " stored" the car for 35years with no
prep . So a nice low miles tr3 engine is now a frozen up hunk of iron. It will take a full tear down and
new pistons/liners at least.
Mad dog

 

[TomMull]

On the other end of the spectrum, I started My recently purchased GT 6 that had been stored in an unheated shed for 25 years (Northern NH), after cleaning the carbs, replacing the spark plugs and putting new brushes in the starter. I changed the oil but not the filter since it had good oil pressure turning on the starter motor and I didn't want to lose the prime. I ran it off a boat tank at first and now have installed a new gas tank and fuel lines. The engine runs good.
Of course I do tend to be of the minority opinion.
Tom

 

[mctriumph]

The fuel pump can turn to crap from sitting .Go and flex the priming lever and check for fuel at the carb.
Always re-build a good OE pump if you have one. NEVER think that the new pumps are cheap AND reliable
they are neither one(IMHO).
Mad dog

 

[mctriumph]

Bigjones , Letting a good car set for more than a few months ,without putting fuel stabilizer in the tank ,
is just silly. The fuel problem DEMONS will invade your garage and screw up your life!!
The "gas" we are sold today last only weeks in a tank. it begins to degrade very quickly, losing its octane
first causing detonation at speed.
Secondly the alcohol in modern fuel gets acidic over time, slow death to fuel pumps/carbs.
To properly store a vehicle for a year it is necessary to put some oil into the cylinders and spin it over
before refitting the sparkplugs. Add fuel stabilizer first however, so it will be infused through out the system.
A car treated this way will fire right up when pulled out of storage. The best wake up is to spin it over
with out plugs till the oilpresser comes up. Then a squirt of gas in each hole ,refit the plugs and start it.
Warm it up a little and change the oil(unless stored with fresh oil). Air up the tires and test drive looking
for other faults.
Mad dog

 

[bigjones]

Duly noted, many thanks!

 

[TomMull]

IMHO, the efficacy of "fuel stabilizers" is at least suspect. I have several cars that sit idle from October to April and start and run fine in April without stabilizers.
Here is a semi-objective discussion although a bit hokey: (You can easily find opposing views but few if any without financial bias.)
> Is your fuel stabilizer actually hurting your car? - Hagerty Media <

 

[charlie74]

I stopped buying fuel stabilizers when I found ethanol-free gasoline available locally. It is easy on rubber components in our fuel systems and seems to be fine after sitting over a winter. Plus it makes my car run much better. I do all the stuff mctriumph does for a winter lay-up minus the stabil but I do store it with a full tank to minimize condensation in the fuel tank.

 

[Bristol401]

I’ve found out the hard way…… Let a car sit that long AND your carbs are clogged with gas that’s turned to glue.. needle and seat, along with float bowl and jet need cleaning. And your clutch master and slave cylinders may also be junk, as water vapor will have gotten into the fluid. I’ve had the hydraulic brake system go bad also when not used for that period of time.

 

[bigjones]

OK, I had the car flatbedded to a local LBC shop (Braddy's British Motor Works) and they said the problem lay with the wiring to the Pertronix unit.
They fixed the problem and the car runs just fine now.