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Removing Rear Hub on BJ8

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Are you quite sure that your u- joints are a-okay? Just listening to them as you spin the drums is not much of a test. You may wish to look a little deeper at them while you are at it.
 
I'm betting you have only a leaking gasket (the hub needs to be tightened a lot more) and a secondary problem with the U-joint or loose shock (damper). Did you do the work yourself or was it the previous owner? You suspiciously have broken studs and leaking seals. I would question the quality of work done. I would start over with the paper seal and studs using new nuts. Tighten the big nut with a PROPER socket with a long torque wrench to 140 to 150 foot pounds. Forget pulling the axle for now. Renew both u-joints, they are cheap. Tighten both rear shocks to the max and go for a drive. That's my 2 cent of advice.
 
That's a nifty idea Andy, had not thought of that one, luckily for me a pal has a five leg puller, I use that. I have now taken charge of a 3/4"square drive bar to get on the end of the big box spanner for the hub nuts - easy. I plan on making up a mandril to fit inside the box spanner and also into the axle casing to help keep things in line - much like the service tool.

:cheers:

Bob
 
Thank you for all the advice and thread with pictures.

This evening, I will remove the sheared stud in place and replace with a new stud (with hub in place if possible...for now). The method of removal will require a bit of skill, I feel, so as to not risk further damage to the cast metal hub and considering I only have about 5/8" depth to play with behind the hub. Not impossible with the right [improvised] tools.

Part of me feels the need to remove the hub and do all the bearings but the better half tells me to leave alone, which is the direction I am taking (again for now).

I am interested in seeing if all behaves normal once I correct the immediate symptoms (ie. klunking) which I feel was the case when the nuts were not as tight as they should of been.

I will record all that I have from this and other threads for when I really do need to replace the bearings, hopefully later than sooner. My guts still tells me it will be sooner, since everything on this car has had a need of being replaced or repaired from years of sitting or neglect.

Thanks for all the help and advice!!

Paul


PS My U joints are okay, the rear showing a little more play the the front U joint. But they are not the cause of my klunking symptom. I do have two new U joints in the waiting, just in case (I may not wait too long to replace those either).

Addendum: Just got back from attempting to remove my sheared stud tonight. Couldn't remove it and even if I did I would of had a problem installing a new one with the hub in place. That was the bad news for me.

But, the good news is, I was able to easily remove the half shaft without the use of any device (I hope that's good news). I also noticed the hub lock washer was badly crimped on one side, obviously to serve as a kind of 'lock' to prevent rotation of the hub locknut(??), or so it seems to me. The bearings appear okay as well as Bearing Spacer (with the O ring included), but I will consider replacing that, too. I've been advised to keep all remaining studs and replace just the sheared one since, as one opinion made, the way the quality of parts are made today, I am better off just replacing the bad and leave all else alone. Any more opinions on that subject?

I mentioned earlier the play or endfloat of the hub, after pushing in and out of the half shaft, was about 1/16". I believe this may be a bit excessive. Shouldn't the endfloat be the equivalent of backing off the hub lock nut, say an 8th of a turn after tightening??

Aside from that, I say thanks again for all the help. All went better than anticipated and I can at least go forward with repairs.

Paul
 
Paul
Removing the half shaft is an easy operation, removing the hub after that is difficult without pullers, and to replace the stud you should remove the hub.
Be aware that the hub nut on the right hand side has a right hand thread and the left one has a left hand thread

Hub play?

There should be no play between the hub and the casing, and you do not back off the hub nut.

That bent flat lock washer is as it should be, unless the PO has removed it several times before and it completely chewed up, generally you should replace it with new every time, if the nut is chewed due to it being chiselled off in the past (mine was) replace that as well.

:cheers:

Bob
 
I suggest getting new nuts at this time. The lock washer at the end of the nut probably isn't functioning as intended anymore. Also a thread-locking compound can help keep them on ( a non-hardening type ). There has to be a reason they loosened in the first place. Good luck, Bob
 
Hey thanks for the advice.

I had no problem removing the hub, either, or on the driver side. haven't dealt with the passenger side at all yet. Why the ease, I can't explain. Last night, I was able to press out the sheared stud as well as one fractured looking stud from the hub.

Earlier in the day, I ordered new outer bearings, new O rings, new lock washers, new lock nuts (one left hand and the other right handed), two new studs, new paper gaskets and new back rubber seals. I think that covers the outer components. The hub is fine.

The existing bearings on the driver side seem to have some resistance as I turn by hand but whether this is a bad sign I will only be able to compare when the new ones arrive. I figure at least do the outer stuff right and be done. I only hope I have no issues with the axle itself. That does not look like a joy to dismantle and I have no idea yet how difficult it is to remove the leaf springs and support brackets, unless there is an easier way. Looks like a real headache to deal with. But as I turn the hub either manually or letting the car do it, everything is behaving as it should. BUT, I did hear the clunking noise once early on, but may be the result of the axle shaft not tight or something other not being fully secured.

One other thing I noticed...

For the heck of it, since the car is off the ground, I started up the car and had it running in first gear with all hub components in place. I noticed when the hub is rotating, it kind of waddles or gyrates, or up and down as you face the hub head on. Just so you know, looking at it from its [narrow] side spinning is not showing any signs of waddling or being bent, etc. I believe the axle shaft is true but the hub plate may of been welded slightly off centered. Can anyone else make the same claim? I will be curious to see how it behaves when the new bearings are installed, though I do not anticipate any difference.

Paul
 
Paul,

I can comment about the roughness in the bearing with the axle shaft removed.

All of the brake drums were manufactured without any attempt to balance them. They are all out of balance, some are very much out of balance. After running the car with out of balance brake drums for many miles, small flat spots will wear into the bearings. You may not be able to feel it with the axle shafts installed but with them removed you will be able to feel that roughness in the bearings from the flat spot wear. It sounds like you have that condition at least on one side of your car. The fact that your axle shaft appears to be wobbling up and down when rotating is also a red flag. Something is very wrong with the axle shaft and/or just the bearing. Hopefully the axle case has not been damaged on the end by whatever is wrong with your axle shaft and bearing. When you get this all fixed, consider sending your brake drums off to Hendrix wire wheel to get balanced. It will also eliminate a common source of vibrations while driving the car at highway speeds.

Ed
 
Hi Ed,

Thanks for your insight. I read your post and I want to offer back my 2 cents again and see where it goes, just to make sure we are on the same page.

When I mentioned about the hub waddling, etc., this was done with the drum off, but not to dismiss the fact the drums may be out of balance like you said. And I accept that. I will say something about them again later below.

But first, the axle shaft, as it is called with the plate welded to it and subsequently that very plate which is designed to receive the hub from behind with its five studs, is what I am referring to as the piece that is waddling and only as you view it head on or say, viewing it along the "X" axis (for argument sake). Not even the slightest waddling or gyration is noticable when viewing it from its side or the "Y" axis.

But let's assume the shaft may be bent, I wonder if it's a good simple test to have the shaft roll along the edge of a table to see how the hub plate or shaft, for that matter, behaves. Any other ideas on this??

I ordered new bearings to compare how they behave with the old ones, drag-wise. The existing bearings seem to have some drag or resistance when rotating by hand, indicating they may want to seize up in the near future. Otherwise, the physical makeup of the bearings appear excellent.

As for the drums, while installed, I would rotate them by hand to find they do hit a hard spot on the shoes (or pause, if you will) and I do believe this is a direct result of the hub shaft plate mentioned above. Maybe you are implying that because of the out-of-round effect of the axle shaft that the balance can be compensated by fixing the drums? And yes, while driving, I also sense this type of pulsation when stepping on the brakes, though not dramatic. Still, I would like to learn more.

The axle case, I feel is fine or otherwise, I would experience looseness where the bearings are positioned which are not and again, refer to my "X" and "Y" findings above.

My first and foremost BIGGEST concern at this time is, is if that klunking sound is going to come back? And if so, what's next? I will only be able to say more when everything is back and the car is on the ground for a test run.

BTW, what weight lubricant do most agree to go with for the axle?

Thanks.

Paul
 
"But let's assume the shaft may be bent, I wonder if it's a good simple test to have the shaft roll along the edge of a table to see how the hub plate or shaft, for that matter, behaves. Any other ideas on this??"

Hi Paul, First thing, although anything is possible, I doubt your axle shaft is bent. These cars have very beefy strong axles (I've broken 2 while racing but never bent one). When you run the engine and put it in gear to spin it, there are lots of vibrations in the whole car and you may just be seeing some overall movement of the whole rear end, particularly if you have a slightly lumpy idle -been there, done that.

Rather than rolling the axle on a table (not a bad idea) you will get more accurate results if you clamp a dial indicator onto the backing plate and set the stem end on the outer machined surface of the axle flange. Then when you rotate the axle you will have real numbers to work with.

Don't remember checking mine and don't know if anyone has a spec on this, but I would guess you should see not more than 0.005"-0.010" runout at the axle flange. In fact, if anybody has a spec for runout, I would love to know too.

Dave
 
Indeed not a bad idea Dave

My old girl is up in the air at this moment, but supported on the splined hubs as I am putting new sills and a floor in on the passengers side. Once all is finished I will check the run out on both sides as I am experiencing scuttle shake at 60 MPH which may be down to a number of things, but this would be a good start.

In fact, now I come to think of it, I have already done this with the wheels in place, against the tyres, and and did not find much of a problem. Sorry, can't remember the numbers.

:cheers:

Bob
 
Progress report:

The rear hub assembly for the driver side has been done since about a week ago and this morning, I finished putting together the passenger side hub assembly.

Filled up the rear axle with hypoid grease (maybe took about a quarter to a third of a quart). Then started her up, checked everything else, and took her for a quick spin. So far, nothing has been clunking. Maybe it was just a matter of the hub nuts not being fully secured on the driver side.

The one odd discovery in all the dismantling done is how the previous owner or mechanic took the lock washers that sat behind the lock nuts, and intentionally bent in the inside diameter tabs (not to mention how the rest of the washers were kind of mangled and the lock nuts were heavily scored). I guess he didn't realize there is a hole in the side of what I am going to say as the axle chamber or that which is threaded and allows the half shaft to be inserted.

As far as everything else, I inspected both existing bearings and decided they were in excellent condition to continue using. *Repacked, then replaced the O rings, outer paper gasket, and the two bad studs.

So, I am now going to gamble and go for a little cruise and pray I make it back home without having to call AAA again because of this or something else new. For the short run so far, I did experience a slight front end shimmy at one point, but couldn't seem to repeat it (yet). I just hope it is not the result of the flatbed not fully preventing the car from slightly moving forward and backwards during travel. I have had better tow truck drivers in the past (funny, having this car helps you develop a working knowledge of the kind of tow truck drivers there are out there).

* I was advised to do that before putting all back together, plus FWIW, I used 85W-90W Hypoid lubricant for the axle, so if there is a difference of opinion on that, then I would like to know more.

Paul
 
As far as everything else, I inspected both existing bearings and decided they were in excellent condition to continue using. *Repacked, then replaced the O rings, outer paper gasket, and the two bad studs.

When you say "repacked" what did you use to repack the rear axle bearing? The reason for the question is the rear wheel bearings are lubricated by the hypoid gear oil. The rear differential bearings are not "packed" like the front wheel bearings.

Also I prefer using synthetic hypoid GL4 rated gear oil in the differential.
 
I do remember one other post mentioning how the hypoid gear oil lubricates the bearings and there was no further need to lubricate the bearings.

But the new bearings I got from Moss also came completely packed with grease as well, so I didn't see any harm in repacking the existing ones and that is after cleaning by dissolving any and all old lubricant from them.

The type of grease I used to repack was lithium. Should I have used something other?

The type of gear oil used for the axle was GL5 grade, 80w90 Hypoid. The manufacturer brand was CRC. Again, should I have used something other?

Paul
 
pkmh said:
I do remember one other post mentioning how the hypoid gear oil lubricates the bearings and there was no further need to lubricate the bearings.

But the new bearings I got from Moss also came completely packed with grease as well, so I didn't see any harm in repacking the existing ones and that is after cleaning by dissolving any and all old lubricant from them.

The type of grease I used to repack was lithium. Should I have used something other?

The type of gear oil used for the axle was GL5 grade, 80w90 Hypoid. The manufacturer brand was CRC. Again, should I have used something other?

Paul
Click to expand...


I don't think packing with grease is necessary--soaking in clean diff oil would be sufficient--but I don't think a little lithium in the diff will hurt anything.

The oil you used is fine; it does have to be for hypoid gears due to the extreme shear forces on the gears. You can use up to 140W--thicker may actually be better--but I don't have any data. Synthetic oil is arguably better--I use it--but the oil you used will probably last as long as the car. CRC and Sta-Lube both make good products.
 
Thanks Bob.

I was beginning to wonder about the repacking using Lithium though again, Moss packed their bearings used a grease on theirs, but which is more black in color whereas the lithium I used was more clear in nature. Curious to know if there is a difference or if it's just a manufacturer's color ID, maybe?

Anyway, thanks all for the input.

Paul
 
Most greases are oil with a thickening agent and/or a soap (let some greases sit long enough and the oil and thickening agent will separate--like paint). The colors are usually caused by the color of the thickening agent (some may use a dye). Most 'cheap' grease is oil mixed with clay or diatomaceous earth; better grease is mixed with lithium or molybdenum--'moly' grease--or other exotic materials. Synthetic greases may not have a thickener; they may be be formulated to be thick, but I don't know for fact.

The black stuff that came in the bearings may have been a grease or anti-corrosion compound or both. Last rear axle bearings I bought from Moss were Italian and were packed with olive oil (just kidding; although they did have an amber-colored grease or coating on the bearings). I usually clean out whatever's in there--it could have collected dust or other crud--and either pack or soak with whatever will be in their environment.
 
Bob_Spidell said:
Most greases are oil with a thickening agent and/or a soap (let some greases sit long enough and the oil and thickening agent will separate--like paint). The colors are usually caused by the color of the thickening agent (some may use a dye). Most 'cheap' grease is oil mixed with clay or diatomaceous earth; better grease is mixed with lithium or molybdenum--'moly' grease--or other exotic materials. Synthetic greases may not have a thickener; they may be be formulated to be thick, but I don't know for fact.

The black stuff that came in the bearings may have been a grease or anti-corrosion compound or both. Last rear axle bearings I bought from Moss were Italian and were packed with olive oil (just kidding; although they did have an amber-colored grease or coating on the bearings). I usually clean out whatever's in there--it could have collected dust or other crud--and either pack or soak with whatever will be in their environment.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the very detailed knowledge. The new bearings I got were packaged in sealed plastic so as far as that goes, I presume there was no crud or other contaminants that have found there way into the bearings, providing they were sealed at time of manufacture. But when I do install them, I will remember to clean and repack the bearings as a matter of practice.

Thanks,

Paul
 
You don't "pack" these bearings. The oil level in the diff will lubricate them as soon as you install them. Install them only with a very light coating of oil if you feel you must. They are "packed" in stuff to keep them from rusting before you buy them. Be sure you have the proper level of oil in the diff -- up to the level of the drain plug.
 
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