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jlaird

jlaird

Great Pumpkin
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Engine and tranny out about 2:30 min.

Seperated engine from tranny.

Here is what I find.

No oil leak from pump.

Oil gallary plug is fine.

No oil is on the back of the flywheel or back of crank between scroll and crank end, is dry in there.

Oil on backing plate.

Oil on clutch pressure plate, outside. Inside and clutch dry as a bone.

Oil on rubber dust plates on the tranny.

Quite frankly I don't know what to make of this. The way the oil was flowing when the engine was running I should see a major screw up but the scroll is dry along with the back of the flywheel. However, the engine end plate does have a film of oil.

Let me think and consider. Any suggestions welcome.
 
What does the area around the input shaft of the tranny look like, Jack? If the back of the engine is dry, the only other place left is the trans. Is it possible that the trans was overfull?
Jeff
 
Jeff, anything is possible and I am leaning that direction more and more.

Just where do you think the oil would come from there is no seal that I know of though. The shaft does turn as the engine runs.

Am going out now to look hard at the tranny.

I did put a quart in the tranny and it was not up to the filler hole however no telling how much was left in it when I drained it.
 
Jack, the input shaft of the tranny uses the same reverse scroll as the crank does. The front cover <u>can</u> be machined to accept a seal, though.
Jeff
 
Hard to say for sure but there seems to be more oil back in the tranny housing than forward.

It may have come from the spindle bearing when running, even idleing, and follow the inside of the bell housing to the engine end plate and down that.

The scroll seal is dry, for sure for sure.

Must be a tranny overfill. Just now when I stood it on its rear end more oil came out even though it had been drained in the car. How in the world do I know when it is empty or low or what ever.

There is a scroll seal in the front of the tranny, where's my book?
 
When I wiggle the tranny input shaft after I removed the throw out bearing I did not oil between the shaft and the case. More that would be warnted I should think, it should not be jucy.
 
Jack, any oil that leaks from the tranny is going to come out the hole in the bottom of the bell housing. One drawback to the trans using engine oil rather than gear lube is that you can't do a "smell test" to determine whether the leak is engine or gearbox.
If you look at the exploded view of the tranny, you can see the scroll on the shaft.
Jeff
 
Jack, a worn front cover will cause a leak there. The input shaft should be a close fit to the inside of the cover.
Just thought of something else, too. Make sure there is still a pilot bushing in the end of the crank! That's what keeps the input shaft running concentrically with the cover.
Jeff
 
No more status today, I'm too tired. Got a couple of things for the wife to do as well.

Tomorrow I will plant the engine again, hopefully with only half a quart of oil in the tranny.

Not sure I know what else to do as even emptyed I know there is some left inside and it should not get a full quart.

Oh Jeff, this is a gold seal tranny, no wear on anything.

Guess what I could have done is put a bit of dye in the tranny oil.
 
Suggestion:
Put dye in the crankcase, much easier and you will be changing that pdq anyway.
 
Jack, I was just offering up possibilities. I'd forgotten it was a fresh gold seal box.
Did you check for the pilot bushing?
You should be able to get fluorescent dye for the oil at a good parts store. It shows up under infrared light. I use a simple "black light" bulb I picked up at the grocery store. Think 1960's poster light! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
If you can't find it there, the GM P/N is 12345795, and should be available through any GM dealer.
It's compatible with the oil, and needn't be removed except at a normal oil change interval.
Jeff
 
At this point folks I'm going to clean up the inards a bit and put it back in tomorrow.

I have preaty well convenced my self that it was a tranny overfill. However, wish I knew how to prevent that. Maybe it is automatic, hehe.

If I have further problems I will go with the dye solution. At the moment all looks good. Never had a tranny prob before so kind of rules out the front seal or what ever, guess maybe I have to chock this up to experience.

Will be very intresting to see what happens when I fire it up for sure. At least I know it runs as I was up the block and back.

More on this subject tomorrow I should expect.

Thanks for holding my hand.
 
On a freshly rebuilt motor I would still suspect the rear scroll seal. Un-seated rings, mucho blowby, old crank, poor scroll clearance. Have you got a gulp valve to put a bit of suction to the crankcase? If the trans was filled to the top of the fill hole as usual, the level is below the pilot shaft scroll and shouldn't leak. If it was overfilled by using the shifter hole to fill it, then the leak would be constant when parked and would slow down when driving until the level got even with the scroll.

Good luck.

Glen Byrns
 
Thanks Glen, the scroll seal was not leaking, no oil there and the pump was fine as well. Looks like it came from the tranny.

Used the filler hole, no clue how it got so much in there or why it got out.
 
Jack,
I have no idea. I suggested the overfill of the tranny because I was having the same issue. Since I chalked it up to an overfill I have just left it alone. Sounds like we have a similar issue. Keep me posted. When I get her back from the painter I can continue to try and catch up to your progress.
 
Ok this is a pic of the inside of the bell housing. Guess what I think it looks like the cover is leaking. I know I did not assemble it in that kind of shape. I think first thing that plate cover what ever needs to come out and be resealed.

Hay, I wonder if that bad clutch caused that with all the excessive pressure when I was trying it. It does pivot on the plate and could have caused the problem. Yep I have another tranny just in case I need a new plate. I wonder what I will find. Now if I can just hold off till morning to check.
 

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Man, I'm hoping that I don't have the same problem! How did you know that you had the wrong clutch in place Jack?
 
Cause no matter how hard I pushed nothing happened. And I push hard. I think, in fact am sure I broke the seal loose or cracked that plate but can see no crack, is dark out there.
 
Jack, by all means remove the cover and check it carefully for cracks or warpage. If it's OK, just reseal and reinstall. It's cheap insurance, if nothing else.
Jeff
 
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