Play in Front Wheels

[bigjones]

OK Folks,

Please forgive the grubbiness of the suspension.

Rocking the wheel at the bottom, I can see about a 1/16 inch play between the disc cover and the bottom trunnion, as indicated.

Does this indicate bad wheel bearing?

Cheers,
Adrian TS58324

 

[Brosky]

No, I don't think so. The wheel bearings are not connected to the plate, but if they need adjusted the wheel will move back and forth.

The plate should be tight and part of it looks like it is. Is it cracked at all? Did one of the bolts come loose?

Look at these pics of the plates and how it all ends up together.

 

[Moseso]

Given where you're pointing at seeing the movement, I agree, it's not the bearings. It makes me think you should look at the ball joint and the trunion for wear. Do the same 6:00 - 12:00 rocking of the wheel, and look at the ball joint at the top of the vertical link. See any movement there? If so, plan a rebuild <span style="font-style: italic">soon.</span> That would be what we call a fairly dangerous place to have a failure while in motion.

 

[Brosky]

Moseso,

I agree. Here are a few more shots of what's hidden in there, how the plate is attached and that ball joint and trunnion definitely need to be checked.

 

[19_again]

Paul, I' never thought of you as a slacker, but:
Picture #1 shows wheel grease behind the lower right nut
Picture #1 shows the cotter pin in upper left to be crossed, not wrapped back around nut
Picture #2 shows a black tie wrap or worse oil dripping down the front of the jack stand
Picture #3 is unclear, (I can't find anything)
Picture #4 shows the red wheel grease still there and a set of the funkiest looking stands and jacks I've ever seen.
Clean up your act, man. That is a disgrace!

 

[TR4nut]

I agree, this could be a potentially dangerous situation if you are seeing movement between the trunnion and the brake shield. If you can do it again, see if you detect movement in the vertical link itself. Movement at the location you are pointing to would suggest heavily worn trunnions - normally difficult to even see if you have tension from the coil spring. Are you jacked up against the frame, or the lower a-arms? If on the a-arms, that might be compressing the spring somewhat to make the free play more noticeable. Either way, if the movement is there, time to get it fixed.

Randy

 

[bigjones]

Sorry folks,

I didn't make myself clear. Rocking the wheel (6:00 - 12:00) and I can feel the slop. Getting down on the ground and sighting down the car, I can see 1/16 inch slop - as "measured" between disc cover and trunnion. I'm pretty sure the cover is secured. It rocks with the wheel. I was just using the cover as a reference point. Sorry for the confusion.

Let me get back in the garage and check that ball joint and trunnion.

I still don't get it though. The wheel rocks but that bottom trunnion (and therefore, I'm thinking, the rest of the suspension) does not move at all so surely it has to be the bearing?

Nice photos, guys. Guess I should get to the car wash one day soon.

19-again - I'm relieved you didn't find anything wrong with my car. Ha.

<span style="font-style: italic">Just seen your post, Randy. Car is jacked up on the frame. I'll look at the vertical link. Thanks for the advice</span>

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58324

 

[Brosky]

Tsk, tsk, tsk!!! Shame on me. Good observations too.

Well, these were part of the "assembly pics" and sometimes grease gets where it shouldn't be. I assure you that was all cleaned before it went home.

Remember that the car wasn't completely back together so loose bolts are also showing.

Now for the cotter pins. Those are indeed incorrect at that time, BUT, after the entire chassis was assembled I drove the car for about 50 miles over all types of bumpy and winding roads. Then I brought it back in and we re-torqued every nut and bolt on the chassis. New cotter pins were installed properly at that time and everything was wiped down before I beat the snowstorm home that day.

 

[TR4nut]

I still don't get it though. The wheel rocks but that bottom trunnion (and therefore, I'm thinking, the rest of the suspension) does not move at all so surely it has to be the bearing?

Actually, that was my worry - if the threads inside the trunnion are heavily worn, the trunnion doesn't move, but everything else does - confirmation would be if you see the vertical link move.

If its the bearing, I'd think you'd see play between the disk and the disk cover.

ps. should have premised my doom and gloom in that I don't know what is acceptable play in the trunnion itself. 1/16" sounds too big to me though.

 

[Brosky]

Very good point, Randy!

 

[Tinster]

Good Luck Adrian!

Next you need to find a high quility, old car
restoration shop.

But checking the wheel bearing is the least expensive route.
A full blown, professional shop installed, front syspension
replacement with powder coating parts will set you back you back $thousands.

Checking your wheel bearings can be done easily on a nice afternoon.

The fisherman

 

[Brosky]

Adrian,

Please note my first thread to you. I clearly suggested that the bearings could need adjusted. And it also says that the following pictures are for reference as to what's in there, and that is also clearly stated:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]No, I don't think so. The wheel bearings are not connected to the plate, but if they need adjusted the wheel will move back and forth.

The plate should be tight and part of it looks like it is. Is it cracked at all? Did one of the bolts come loose?

Look at these pics of the plates and how it all ends up together. [/QUOTE]

Never did I suggest that you powder coat or go to a professional shop and that is quite obvious also.

 

[DougF]

To properly adjust the bearings, the factory suggests to tighten the nut to 5 ft. lbs. and then back it off one flat.

 

[19_again]

exactly what would constitute a "heavily worn" trunnion? Is it strictly the threads being worn? I finally got to work on my left hand trunnion and unlike the right hand one turned freely (only a squirt of PBB). The threads on the link show wear but when the trunnion is put back on, tightened up and then backed off there's no wiggle. Is that considered an ok trunnion? Also I have cleaned both the interior of the trunnion and the link; does the lubricant work it's way down the interior of the link and up the threads to ultimately lubricate the threads or should I preload the threads?

Paul,I have no doubt you took care of that sloppy mess, just want to you to know we're paying attention.
Mike

 

[TR6oldtimer]

If the vertical link wobbles when properly installed in the trunnion, either the trunnion or vertical link it is worn, in my case it was both. Otherwise thing are OK.

I put oil in the trunnion then inserted the vertical link, then wiped everything clean. Or you could lightly oil it, then fill after assembly.

 

[bigjones]

Hi Folks,

More info:

With the wife rocking the tire, I could see no movement in the ball joint.

With the tire off, I couldn't see any movement in the ball joint when I rocked the hub.

So it much be the vertical link, right. I think I'll replace the ball joints anyway, as I can do that, but take it to the LBC shop for the vertical link replacement, and anything else they find.

(Just for the heck of it, I measured the slop with a dial indicator, as shown, at 4 locations of the disc, and got 10,11,11,10 thou.)

Thanks for all the advice so far, and for putting me right about the wheel bearing.

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58325

 

[bgbassplyr]

ok, lets reason this out. if the wheel brgs. were loose, the brake disc would be hitting the disc shield because it is attached to the vertical link, not the disc. therefore, the vertical link is moving and the pivot point for this movement would be the trunion. if my reasoning holds up, then the problem is either slop in the top ball joint, loose ball joint mount to the upper a-arm, or the upper a-arm bushings are worn. if the problem was a loose fit of the vertical link in the trunion, that connection would have be so loose that that the vertical link would likely pull out of the trunion.

or it might be a loose stub axle. would love to know the answer.

just my thoughts because the last time i worked on a triumph, they were new enough that they didn't have these problems (1968).

 

[Brosky]

Just out of curiously, does the car shake or vibrate at all, at any speed?

 

[bigjones]

Just out of curiously, does the car shake or vibrate at all, at any speed?

Thanks for the post. A little bit. Not anything that I would be concerned about. Certainly not as smooth as a Camry. I don't drive fast (tops about 60 mph - though I did get up to 90 once on the freeway before I chickened out). About as smooth as my Midget - but that is probably worn out as well.

BassPlayer: I've just done the control arm bushes so we can rule those out. I think the concensus is worn vertical link/ trunnion. Thanks for the thoughts.

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58325

 

[Brosky]

Well Adrian, you need to check the wheel bearings, which probably need cleaning and repacking as well as adjusted and then you can check everything else out when you know those are right.

Things can and do come loose, so putting a wrench on the backing plate bolts and everything else that can be tightened won't hurt either.