PL 700 halogen wattage?

[ichthos]

I have the stock 60/40 bulbs in my PL700s. I am going on a cross country trip shortly, and with my night vision, I definately need the newer halogens. I noticed the halogens are offered as 60/55, 100/55, 100/80, and 100/90. Can someone tell me what wattage they run in their PL700/s or reproductions? Does anyone know if the bulbs for the reproductions fit the original PL700's? Anyone have a favorite source for the halogens? Any input would greatly be appreciated.

Kevin

 

[TR3driver]

If you need better light, my suggestion is to lose the PL700s and get some good quality, modern lights. More wattage doesn't help nearly as much as more efficient gathering and focusing of the light. And from what I've heard, the reproduction PL700s aren't even as good as the originals, from a light quality standpoint.

Original PL700s took a different type of bulb than most of the reproductions do. Bulbs to fit original PL700 are much less common, but they can be found, for example at Daniel Stern .

Another solution that I've not seen before is offered at https://www.volvosolutions.com/Misc_P45T.html But I'm always suspicious of conversions, because the reflectors are designed assuming a very specific location and even orientation for the filament and the adapters may or may not locate the filament properly.

My suggestion would be the 7" Cibie lamps from Daniel Stern combined with relays and either 100/55 bulbs, or the 60/55 "+50 high output" bulbs.
The relays also make a noticeable difference in how much light gets to the road, because they eliminate the voltage drop through the original switches and halogen bulbs are very sensitive to low voltage.

 

[Andrew Mace]

I'll be interested in answers. Original PL700 lamps took a "Type A" bulb, which was a rather unique bulb, although it was used in several types of European headlamps "back then" (I have a pair of Cibie "Optiques" -- they of the concave lens -- that also took the Type A bulb)! I've heard there is a halogen replacement, but I don't know details.

 

[kodanja]

Since I replaced my stock Lucas alternator with the Bosch 55amp, I can see a major difference in the brightness of my lamps~!

 

[tdskip]

I just bought a pair of these for $60 on Amazon.

 

[DaveatMoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]I am going on a cross country trip shortly, and with my night vision, I definately need the newer halogens.[/QUOTE]
Be careful. If your headlights wind up noticeably brighter than other cars you can (and in some jurisdictions probably will) be pulled over. The DOT standard, and therefore the legal limit in most states, for headlight wattage is 55/65W (low/high). Anything brighter than that will likely get you a fine and strand you until they're replaced, if they're bright enough to call attention to themselves. :blush:

 

[TR3driver]

If your headlights wind up noticeably brighter than other cars you can (and in some jurisdictions probably will) be pulled over.

While I don't doubt that there are some jurisdictions where you can be pulled over (just driving a 'furrin' car is enough in some places); the DOT standards were basically repealed some years ago and never did specify a particular wattage. Even arc lamps are legal today (known as HID) as long as the low beams do not blind oncoming drivers.

BTW PL700s did not meet DOT standards and hence were (still are in some places) technically illegal in the US. But I've been running "illegal" headlights since at least 1976, even in places like OH, IN and PA and I have never had an officer so much as mention them.

And I've not met one yet that carried around a light meter to check how bright your headlights are :laugh:

 

[DNK]

Kevin- Your takin your car on a long trip????

 

[TR3driver]

Not strictly germane to the topic, but here's a comparative photo of an H4 halogen vs a standard tungsten sealed beam on my Stag. Both are correctly aimed, on low beam.

The difference in beam pattern is obvious, but the camera doesn't capture the difference in light. The H4 is much whiter and clearer, while the tungsten is quite yellow by comparison.

 

[tdskip]

Kevin- Your takin your car on a long trip????

Oh, yeah. Good catch Don.

What is the scoop? What sort of road trip? Do tell!

 

[DaveatMoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:].....even in places like OH, IN and PA and I have never had an officer so much as mention them.

And I've not met one yet that carried around a light meter to check how bright your headlights are [/QUOTE]
I can tell you this much for sure. In PA if bring your car in for annual inspection and the bulbs are rated at all differently from 55/65W the car will fail inspection. If a PA police officer suspects a car on the road would not pass a PA inspection at any time he is within his rights to request a Penndot (PA-DOT) vehicle inspection team to evaluate the car and determine it's legality. If illegal and repairs can't be made on the spot the car is impounded until such time as it is repaired. And of course there are fines associalted with all of this.

And you can darn well bet that those little white Penndot vans you see checking 18 wheelers at the weigh stations <span style="text-decoration: underline">do</span> have light meters.

I know. I used to work with them (state/local police and DOT inspectors) as a PA Dept. of Environmental Resources inspector in numerous field projects.

...And I seriously doubt that PA is an exceptional state in this regard.

 

[DaveatMoon]

BTW, Here's a link to the Federal Register Section for headlamp regulation, which is cited in the PA Code and probably every other state's vehicular regulations. The type of headlamp most lbc's used is called "Type D", 2 round 7" dual-filament bulbs. 49CFR571.10 Section S7.3.5(b) reads:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]The maximum wattage at 12.8 volts (design voltage): 65 watts on upper beam, and 55 watts on lower beam. [/QUOTE]
Any compliant seperate bulb element or sealed beam unit will be plainly marked for "DOT" compliance. If that's not there, and an officer feels that a headlight system is causing a hazard to others on the road, I would not be surprised to see citations written on the spot with or without assistence from state vehicular inspectors. I know of a few people in 2 states (PA & IA) who've been cited for illegal driving lights. Illegal headlamps are just as easy to enforce against.

All I'm saying is that if the bulbs chosen are too bright there will be risks involved. Anyone who's eyesight has problems with night vision knows what it's like to try and drive into lights that are too bright, and we all know how easy it is to spot illegal lights.

 

[TR3driver]

I can tell you this much for sure. In PA if bring your car in for annual inspection and the bulbs are rated at all differently from 55/65W the car will fail inspection.

I find that really hard to believe, especially since the standard 7" tungsten sealed beam headlight bulbs are not rated 55/65. Neither are the HID lights found on many high-end new cars.

Do they actually disassemble the headlights to check the markings on the bulbs?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]...And I seriously doubt that PA is an exceptional state in this regard. [/QUOTE]Honestly, I don't know of any other state that is so anal about modifications. My college roommate claimed you guys can't even have different size tires front/rear (which I suppose makes cars like the Corvette and MR2 illegal there). Makes me wonder why PA residents put up with it. Is the horse and buggy lobby really that strong?

 

[TR3driver]

49CFR571.10 Section S7.3.5(b) reads:

The maximum wattage at 12.8 volts (design voltage): 65 watts on upper beam, and 55 watts on lower beam.

And section S7.1 says that only cars manufactured on or after Sept 1 1994 must meet any of section S7.3, S7.4, S7.5 or S7.6. Since no Triumphs were manufactured on or after Sept 1 1994, the entire section does not apply to Triumphs.

 

[ichthos]

Thanks for all the input. I am confused by a lot of the conversation. So, is the first number listed always the highbeam and the second the low beam? Who would I go to to find out what is legal in my state (I live in WA)? I will be travelling east by way of Montana and dropping down into Ohio at some point. I figure if it is legal in my state, it should be fairly consistent across the US. Even if it is not in one state, I can always take a pair of the regular bulbs to switch out if it is not. I currently have Lucas 60/40 bulbs. Would you say that using a max of 65/55 halogens would be safe legally?

Here is the bottom line: all I want is the brightest light I can have without blinding other drivers. As I shared, I took my car on a night drive, about 6 hours, across the state. I had to be the only car that didn't have halogens. When they would pass me, their light beams were so strong that you could barely tell my lights were on. It is sort of hard on the eyes with the drastic light change all night long. Add to that it was raining, and it made it even more difficult. I will be driving about 12 hours a day for three or four days, hopefully during the day mostly, but if it does come down to night driving, I want to be prepared.

I don't know how well halogens will even work in the PL700's, but I am at least going to try it out and find out. I figure if the reproductions are all using halogens, it is worth a try.

 

[TFR]

I work in a place that manufactures headlights. To calculate wattage you use the the amps x voltage (ohms law). So if you not sure of the wattage just measure the amps and multiply it times 12.8 (rated user voltage).
As for light positioning. It amazes me how we all get excited over the light positioning on a sealed beam headlight when all the new composites are barely able to aim. I can't figure out how they pass state aim inspection.
It also amazes me how aftermarket companies can sell europian headlights in the US when they allow way to much glare light.

My .02

 

[angelfj1]

I work in a place that manufactures headlights. To calculate wattage you use the the amps x voltage (ohms law). So if you not sure of the wattage just measure the amps and multiply it times 12.8 (rated user voltage).
As for light positioning. It amazes me how we all get excited over the light positioning on a sealed beam headlight when all the new composites are barely able to aim. I can't figure out how they pass state aim inspection.
It also amazes me how aftermarket companies can sell europian headlights in the US when they allow way to much glare light.

My .02

I've lived in PA most of my life. It is quite backward in many ways, e.g. can't buy beer and wine in a grocery - uncivilized! So, I would believe almost anything.

"To calculate wattage you use the the amps x voltage (ohms law). So if you not sure of the wattage just measure the amps and multiply it times 12.8 (rated user voltage)."

yes, a simple relationship. However, the newer technology lamps produce more lumens per watt. It's the lumens that illuminate the road. So watts/lumens vary dramatically from lamp to lamp and therefor watts alone can not really be used for light output comparison, IMO.

 

[DaveatMoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]However, the newer technology lamps produce more lumens per watt. It's the lumens that illuminate the road. So watts/lumens vary dramatically from lamp to lamp and therefor watts alone can not really be used for light output comparison, IMO.[/QUOTE]
Watts alone aren't used for comparisons or in defining legality. The PA Code, which I use because I'm somewhat familiar with it, uses both the CFR/DOT wattage descriptions and a candlepower rating. To be legal you have to pass both.

Legal lights will have their DOT certification printed or embossed on them somewhere. Without that you'll have a problem should they be called into question.

And yes, PA is especially restrictive in automotive regulations. It was their regs that originally outlawed glass covered headlights in 1965. Other states can be as permissive as they want, both in law and enforcement. Here, one state over in Ohio, there's a guy in my neighborhood who has red turn signals <span style="text-decoration: underline">on the front <span style="font-style: italic">of a <span style="font-weight: bold">motorcycle!</span></span></span> He's had them for three years now that I know of (and somehow hasn't been killed yet!). Over the border in PA you wouldn't get past the first cop like that.

 

[DaveatMoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] However, the newer technology lamps produce more lumens per watt. It's the lumens that illuminate the road. So watts/lumens vary dramatically from lamp to lamp and therefor watts alone can not really be used for light output comparison, IMO. [/QUOTE]
I forgot to mention that this is why there are so many classifications of headlamps. 7" round headlamps are classified as "Type D" out of a series of definitions that runs through at least "Type H". Each one has specific requirements that must be met and/or not exceeded, including wattage that varies by type.

 

[DaveatMoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] Do they actually disassemble the headlights to check the markings on the bulbs?[/QUOTE]
I they have a reason to, they're <span style="text-decoration: underline">required</span> to do so.

All they need to find is the "DOT" Certification markings. If they're not there, your car fails.

More to Kevin's issue, if you drive through a given state you are required to meet their regulations. They <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> grant some leeway, but in a situation where other's saftey is compromised (i.e. by lights that are too bright) that's a dubious thing to trust in. If (as he is) you're taking your car on an interstate tour, using non-DOT approved lighting that calls attention to itself is a questionable thing to do no matter what your state allows.