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Pertronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
- Thread starter BrandonBJ8
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
The pigtail is the short reddish wire near the top in your pic. I looks ok.
If the pic is where you have the distributor set for firing number one cylinder, Either you have the engine's number one cylinder on the exhaust stroke instead of the firing stroke, or the distributor is plugged in 180 degrees out. It takes a full engine revolution to get from the firing stroke to the exhaust stroke & vs.
The cutout/notch in the top of the distributor shaft fits the rotor at a position opposite to the business end of the rotor. I assume that the way it is, with the rotor seated correctly on the shaft, the spark end of the rotor is pointing to #6 cylinder instead of #1. Firing order on the cap, CCW, is 1,5,3,6,2,4 & takes two engine revolutions for one distributor revolution.
Recheck for #1 cylinder firing position, both valves closed. If it is wrong, #1's valves will be a little bit open. If it is correct, unplug & turn the distributor shaft 180 degrees so that the firing end of the rotor is pointing to #1 cylinder instead of #6.
D
The pigtail is the short reddish wire near the top in your pic. I looks ok.
If the pic is where you have the distributor set for firing number one cylinder, Either you have the engine's number one cylinder on the exhaust stroke instead of the firing stroke, or the distributor is plugged in 180 degrees out. It takes a full engine revolution to get from the firing stroke to the exhaust stroke & vs.
The cutout/notch in the top of the distributor shaft fits the rotor at a position opposite to the business end of the rotor. I assume that the way it is, with the rotor seated correctly on the shaft, the spark end of the rotor is pointing to #6 cylinder instead of #1. Firing order on the cap, CCW, is 1,5,3,6,2,4 & takes two engine revolutions for one distributor revolution.
Recheck for #1 cylinder firing position, both valves closed. If it is wrong, #1's valves will be a little bit open. If it is correct, unplug & turn the distributor shaft 180 degrees so that the firing end of the rotor is pointing to #1 cylinder instead of #6.
D
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Alan,
We are pretty sure that the "basics" have been pretty well covered along the way. It's a little hard to dig it out though.
D
Alan,
We are pretty sure that the "basics" have been pretty well covered along the way. It's a little hard to dig it out though.
D
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Alan's suggestions are certainly well taken, and will tell you if the components are working or not, but won't tell the tale regarding timing.
"180 degrees out" means that when the distributor is installed, and the rotor is pointing to the number one wire at TDC, then TDC is on the exhaust stroke, not the compression stroke. Accordingly, there is no compressed gasoline/air mixture to ignite. The remedy is to note the position of the rotor on a hypothetical clock face, say 6:30, loosen the distributor, pull it out sufficiently to allow the shaft to be turned by hand, and rotate the shaft 180 degrees, in this example, to the 12:30 hypothetical clock positon. This is a very common mistake.
As explained earlier in detail, the timing mark on the balancer will align with the pointer on the timing cover in two positions, one at TDC compression stroke, and one at TDC on the exhaust stroke. This is because the crankshaft, to which the balancer is fixed, rotates twice for every time the camshaft rotates once. The camshaft determines whether the stroke is intake, copression, power or exhaust.
Alan's suggestions are certainly well taken, and will tell you if the components are working or not, but won't tell the tale regarding timing.
"180 degrees out" means that when the distributor is installed, and the rotor is pointing to the number one wire at TDC, then TDC is on the exhaust stroke, not the compression stroke. Accordingly, there is no compressed gasoline/air mixture to ignite. The remedy is to note the position of the rotor on a hypothetical clock face, say 6:30, loosen the distributor, pull it out sufficiently to allow the shaft to be turned by hand, and rotate the shaft 180 degrees, in this example, to the 12:30 hypothetical clock positon. This is a very common mistake.
As explained earlier in detail, the timing mark on the balancer will align with the pointer on the timing cover in two positions, one at TDC compression stroke, and one at TDC on the exhaust stroke. This is because the crankshaft, to which the balancer is fixed, rotates twice for every time the camshaft rotates once. The camshaft determines whether the stroke is intake, copression, power or exhaust.
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BrandonBJ8
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Alan, I'm actually not getting a spark from the wire with a plug or screwdriver. (I hope I'm doing it correctly as I am by myself so I rested them on the valve cover as a ground to see if they would spark.)
I've attached a picture of my car for reference to those who asked.
Alan, I'm actually not getting a spark from the wire with a plug or screwdriver. (I hope I'm doing it correctly as I am by myself so I rested them on the valve cover as a ground to see if they would spark.)
I've attached a picture of my car for reference to those who asked.
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
I agree, but he can already hear sparks jumping all over the place. Cap on, & cap off. This was the clue that the Pert/coil/associated wiring was ok.Just not getting to the right place at the right time.
D
I agree, but he can already hear sparks jumping all over the place. Cap on, & cap off. This was the clue that the Pert/coil/associated wiring was ok.Just not getting to the right place at the right time.
D
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BrandonBJ8
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Should there be an arm connected to the rotor? Like in the picture in this link? - https://www.kawachi.zaq.ne.jp/classicmustang/classiccar/parts/ignitor.jpg
Just curious, because my doesn't have that and never came with it.
Should there be an arm connected to the rotor? Like in the picture in this link? - https://www.kawachi.zaq.ne.jp/classicmustang/classiccar/parts/ignitor.jpg
Just curious, because my doesn't have that and never came with it.
healeynut
Jedi Knight
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Brandon -
Sounds to me like you have the dreaded broken rotor, which is very common as there is a cheap rotor manufacturer out there.
Your rotor should dfinitely have a brass arm on it. If the rivet that holds that brass arm to the plastic body is a solid rivet, your rotor may very well be bad. Can you send a picture of your rotor?
Do you have a spare rotor? If so, try that and see if the car starts.
Brandon -
Sounds to me like you have the dreaded broken rotor, which is very common as there is a cheap rotor manufacturer out there.
Your rotor should dfinitely have a brass arm on it. If the rivet that holds that brass arm to the plastic body is a solid rivet, your rotor may very well be bad. Can you send a picture of your rotor?
Do you have a spare rotor? If so, try that and see if the car starts.
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Some rotors have a projection/arm on the back/noncontact end, some don't. It is there to be a weight counter balance to the spark end. Maybe gives the rotor a little better balance than if the rotor was single ended.
Many Brit cars have single ended, many US cars have double ended. Doubt that it really makes any difference.
The Brit rotor would look something like the attached pic.
D
Some rotors have a projection/arm on the back/noncontact end, some don't. It is there to be a weight counter balance to the spark end. Maybe gives the rotor a little better balance than if the rotor was single ended.
Many Brit cars have single ended, many US cars have double ended. Doubt that it really makes any difference.
The Brit rotor would look something like the attached pic.
D
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BrandonBJ8
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Wait, here goes my complete lack of knowledge. Do I have a rotor? Here is a picture of my distributor and cap. This is all I have...nothing else. I think I may have been referring to the rotor has the arm and the shaft for the rotor as the rotor.
I found the rotor in a bag that included my old points. Do I need to attach my old rotor? Could that be what's causing all the problems?
Wait, here goes my complete lack of knowledge. Do I have a rotor? Here is a picture of my distributor and cap. This is all I have...nothing else. I think I may have been referring to the rotor has the arm and the shaft for the rotor as the rotor.
I found the rotor in a bag that included my old points. Do I need to attach my old rotor? Could that be what's causing all the problems?
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Really - Nothing else. If so talk about going in circles. See the pic in my previous post. This "rotor" goes on the end of the distributor shaft in a very precise location to route the spark from the cap center coil electrode to the plug electrodes.
By all means install the rotor. Make sure that the brass end is pointing to #1 plug electrode on the cap as before.
Alan,
No broken rotor, just missing.
D
Really - Nothing else. If so talk about going in circles. See the pic in my previous post. This "rotor" goes on the end of the distributor shaft in a very precise location to route the spark from the cap center coil electrode to the plug electrodes.
By all means install the rotor. Make sure that the brass end is pointing to #1 plug electrode on the cap as before.
Alan,
No broken rotor, just missing.
D
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BrandonBJ8
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Wow, anytime I post from now on, please assume I am a moron.
I didn't have the rotor on the entire time. I just put it on and it started up right away! Now it's time to get the timing right.
I apologize for all the time you guys spent helping me thinking it was a big problem! However, it was helpful going through all the steps and learning more as I tried to fix it. Don't worry, in like 15 or 20 years, I'll actually contribute to this forum!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Thanks everyone!
Wow, anytime I post from now on, please assume I am a moron.
I didn't have the rotor on the entire time. I just put it on and it started up right away! Now it's time to get the timing right.
I apologize for all the time you guys spent helping me thinking it was a big problem! However, it was helpful going through all the steps and learning more as I tried to fix it. Don't worry, in like 15 or 20 years, I'll actually contribute to this forum!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Thanks everyone!
healeynut
Jedi Knight
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Brandon -
Yes, you have to have a rotor arm for your distributor to work. You should order at least two (one for back up). Dave Russel sent a picture of what one looks like, but they can look several different ways depending on the manufacturer.
If you go down about 2/3rds the way down on this web page you can see what all the various rotors look like (they all work the same):
https://www.healey6.com/library.htm
If you have a good supplier like NAPA in your town, they should have the rotor in stock, it is very common amongst british cars.
Brandon -
Yes, you have to have a rotor arm for your distributor to work. You should order at least two (one for back up). Dave Russel sent a picture of what one looks like, but they can look several different ways depending on the manufacturer.
If you go down about 2/3rds the way down on this web page you can see what all the various rotors look like (they all work the same):
https://www.healey6.com/library.htm
If you have a good supplier like NAPA in your town, they should have the rotor in stock, it is very common amongst british cars.
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Hey, no problem. I'm sure you learned even more than you wanted to know.
Cheers,
D
Hey, no problem. I'm sure you learned even more than you wanted to know.
Cheers,
D
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
You're certainly not a moron. You knew enough to seek help here. I'd suggest a good general shop manual for your future use. That will help give you a base of knowledge, and will keep you from being at the mercy of very high priced repair shops for the routine maintenance your car will require. Plenty of willing help here, too.
You're certainly not a moron. You knew enough to seek help here. I'd suggest a good general shop manual for your future use. That will help give you a base of knowledge, and will keep you from being at the mercy of very high priced repair shops for the routine maintenance your car will require. Plenty of willing help here, too.
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BrandonBJ8
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
I just got the Haynes manual to go along with my other older one. It's been very helpful as well.
I just got the Haynes manual to go along with my other older one. It's been very helpful as well.
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Going back several posts, maybe one of Dave Russells, sometimes with the pertronix installed the rotor sits too high. On mine you could actually see the distributer cap move or jump around just before it destroyed the rotor. Anyway, I ended up sanding off about 1/64 of an inch on the bottom of the rotor so that it would fit correctly.
Going back several posts, maybe one of Dave Russells, sometimes with the pertronix installed the rotor sits too high. On mine you could actually see the distributer cap move or jump around just before it destroyed the rotor. Anyway, I ended up sanding off about 1/64 of an inch on the bottom of the rotor so that it would fit correctly.
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BrandonBJ8
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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting
Glad I could provide a humorous start to your day Keoke!
Glad I could provide a humorous start to your day Keoke!