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Pertronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

The voltage at the battery is 12.7 (brand new battery).

Now I'm trying to manually turn the engine to get it to TDC or slightly before. However, I've never had to do this so I don't know how to or where to start. What's the best way to manually turn it?

Thanks!
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

BrandonBJ8 said:
I disconnected the black/white wire and there was no change.

I just purchased an Optima Battery (75/35) as a load test was done on my previous and it failed. I hooked up the new battery and am only getting about 10.9v at the coil. Is this a problem?

Also, how can I manually set the engine to a little bit before TDC?
Click to expand...

If you are only getting 10.9 at the coil, some is getting lost in the connections somewhere or your meter is not reading correctly. With the meter directly on the battery, a fully charged battery should read 12.6 volts or slightly more. You should get the same reading at the coil.

Couple of ways to find cylinder #1 TDC.
1- Remove #1 spark plug, put the end of your finger over the plug hole, turn the engine until you feel compression starting. Look at the timing marks on the front pulley which should be approaching TDC. Stop at about 1/2" on the pulley before TDC. This should be the firing point.
or
2- Remove the valve cover. Watch #1 intake valve. The valve most closely aligned with the front intake port. When it has opened & closed, as you continue rotating the engine, the timing mark should be approaching TDC firing. Stop at the appropriate place.

The basic Pertronix unit is very good if connected correctly. If it is connected wrong or the ignition switch left on with the engine stopped for a prolonged amount of time, maybe more than five minutes, the Pert module will be damaged beyond repair. I hope this has not already happened.
D
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

What is the best way to manually turn the engine?
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

" I hopr this has not already happened" Been in the back of me mind all along too Dave, but we will see.


Brandon, if you take all the plugs out you should be able to turn the engine by hand using the Fan.--Keoke
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Thanks.

I don't think I've ruined Pert unit. I haven't had the ignition on that much at all.

Would there be anyway visible signs to tell if it's bad?
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Wow...I cringe when I post these threads because I feel like such an idiot sometimes, but I've got to learn somewhere.

I removed the sparkplugs and turned the fan (both ways) but it didn't seem to be turning the engine. Just the fan moved. I put my finger over #1 and didn't feel anything when I moved the fan.
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

The fan belt is slipping. Go back to my instructions about putting the car in fourth gear & turning the front wheel to move the car forward or backward. It's easy to do because you can reach the wheel & see the marks at the same time. You can even move the car with one hand & feel compression with the other if your arms are long enough.

You could also use a remote starter button test device instead of rolling the car, but rolling is more controllable.

Don't feel bad, It's not exactly easy to get info by mail.
D
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Dave,

Should I jack the car up so the wheel can spin freely or should it be done while on the ground?
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

On the ground. You want to move the car with the right front wheel so that you can also see what the engine is doing.
D
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Okay, I've got it setup about 1/2" before TDC. The rotor in the dizzy is just before the #1 plug. I tried starting the car, and as I was cranking it I heard a "tick tick tick" (not fuel pump, faster) coming from around the distributor area. I didn't try starting it after I heard that in fear of damaging something. Is this the sound of the Pertronix unit? Is this a good sign or do I need to try and adjust something?

Thanks!
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

The tic tic tic is the sound of a spark jumping somewhere. A good sign that the Pert, & coil are working.

It does mean that sparks are jumping somewhere other than at the plugs. Don't give up, you are making progress.
D
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Any idea on what to try? I went back out there and am still not having any luck.

I took the cap off while try to start it and noticed the rotor was moving fine and I could hear the Pert unit sparking. I put the cap back on and am having no luck. It's just not starting. I'm still getting about 12.6v at the battery and 10.9 at the coil. I no the 10.9 isn't good but I don't think it's bad enough to cause the engine not to start.
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Back up just a bit. Do you only hear the "sparking" when the cap is off. If so, this would be normal. The sparks have to go somewhere. If it's happening with the rotor & cap in place the plugs should be the only place that sparks.

I agree that 10.9V at the coil should allow it to start.

Don't want to confuse you, but there are a lot of possibilities still open.

Is the Pert sleeve correctly seated over the point cam & fully down into place.

Is the rotor firmly seated on it's correct index flat.

Is the rotor clearing the cap contacts & not rubbing them inside.

Is the cap firmly seated on the distributor & in the correct notch.

Are you sure that the rotor is pointing to #1 plug when the cylinder is on the compression stroke & not the exhaust stroke.

Is the small cylindrical spring loaded carbon brush in the cap still in place & contacting the center of the rotor.
D

One other thought. Is the small flexible pigtail that connects the distributor body to the point mounting plate still firmly connected. The Pert requires that it's metal base mounting plate be well grounded.
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Dave,

I can sometimes hear the sparking when the cap is on, but not always. I always hear it with the cap off.

Not sure about the sleeve and rotor. All seems to be fine, but I'm not familiar with it so I've attached two pictures that may be able to help you see. If not, you may have to tell me what to look for.

The rotor is clearing the cap and the cap looks to be seated fine and in the notch (by notch I assume you mean the two notches on each end where it clamps).

I adjusted the distributor a bit CCW to see if I had it timed in the exhaust stroke and not compression. Tried it again and still had no luck.

The spring loaded brush is in place in the cap. I can't tell if it's contacting the rotor fully.

I'm not sure what the pigtail is you are referring to. Is it the piece that the red/black wires go through?

Thanks!
 

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Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

Is the engine giving any signs of life? I know it won't start, but does is seem to be getting close, or is nothing at all happening? If it's coughing a bit, showing some life, then I'd just start moving the distributor a couple of degrees at a time counterclockwise, trying to start it between adjustments. If it's a timing problem, things will get progressively better by small adjustments.

But what about fuel? Are you really getting fuel to the carbs? With the ignition off, you can disconnect the flexible fuel line inside the engine compartment, place the end in a suitable container, and then have an assistant turn the ignition to the "on" position. You should hear the electric fuel pump tick away, and presently see a stream of fuel emerge from the line, into the container. If it doesn't flow right away, give it about 20-30 seconds of running time. Still no flow? Then backtrack to clear obstructions. Sometimes the pump will cavitate, trying to pump air.

Seems like we're concentrating on ignition here, when other things could be your problem.
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

I'll check the fuel, but I'm pretty sure it's ignition as the car was running well 2 weeks ago when I removed the distributor and had it sent off to Advanced. It's worth a shot though.

It doesn't seem to show any improvements. It's not really coughing or getting much closer. It just cranks and cranks but doesn't start.
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

If the only change is the distributor, then my guess is either that it's 180 degrees out, or the Pertronix unit is faulty.
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

What do you mean by 180 degrees out? I think I can picture what you are saying. Should I rotate the piece inside the housing 180' and try it?

I think the unit is good as I am hearing it spark.
 
Re: Petronix and Dist Rebuild - Car not starting

guys -

You have brandon doing a heck of alot of work without checking the basics.

Brandon, connect one of the plugs to the wires and let it touch ground somewhere, turn over the engine... do you see a spark at the plug gap?

If not you work back from there. Next take the plug out and put in a screwdriver into the wire and then hold it close to ground see if you get a spark.

If not... you may have a bad rotor or cracked cap.

Alan
 
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