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TR2/3/3A New engine mounts not sitting flat

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Looking at your first pic it looks like the the two planes of the motor mount and the frame are not the same. I do not thing a slotted hole will help as the rubber would be still on a uneven load it all should want to sit flat so a wedge may be your best fix. Years ago my TR 4 1962 had a broken mount ( rubber pulled away from plate ) I did not know that until I lifted the motor one day from the oil pan. Will be good to see your fix. Madflyer
 
Well, the Saturn/Jupiter alignment must have been a big help today- I went the shim route and that worked. I took some measurements this morning and determined the right frame mount is about 2 degrees different than the left one so I decided to machine some shims. 2 hours after I started, I had a set of shims...
IMG_1781.jpg


I tried putting a full two degrees of shim on the right side and discovered it messed with the bolt hole alignment so I decided to split it and put 1 degree of shim on each side. That worked out quite well with both mounts fully seated on the frame and in full contact with the engine plate. I did bolt in the cross member to check fit and that fit perfectly. I did not check the radiator hole alignment but will do that tomorrow.
IMG_1782.jpg
IMG_1784.jpg

Well, that closes that issue- on to the next one! I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions! It's great to have this forum and members that are active to help sort through these inevitable issues on these little cars.

Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! I hope Santa's good to everyone!

Ron
 
Well SP53, I went to put in the cross brace and now see a 1/4" gap on each end after I bolted engine in. That wasn't the case before I bolted things in. Something obviously flexed so rather than try to pull it in with bolts, I'm going to make a couple of spacers and put those in. The other option is pull the engine, let things flex back to where the cross piece fits, bolt it in, then drop the engine in.

This frame has been a never-ending case of shipwrights disease :concern:

Ron
 
I can't claim shipwrights disease. Maybe a common case of rust cancer, but the patient is showing signs of a full recovery. There will still be a couple of years of physical therapy. Frank
 
71TR6 said:
Well SP53, I went to put in the cross brace and now see a 1/4" gap on each end after I bolted engine in. That wasn't the case before I bolted things in. Something obviously flexed so rather than try to pull it in with bolts, I'm going to make a couple of spacers and put those in. The other option is pull the engine, let things flex back to where the cross piece fits, bolt it in, then drop the engine in.

This frame has been a never-ending case of shipwrights disease :concern:

Ron
Click to expand...

Like I suggested, with the amount of work your forward frame went through, you really need to install the cross brace to determine how things will settle before getting serious about fixes.
 
i must agree with John, The cross brace is extremely important to help with the flexing in the front suspension. The spring towers are welded to the frame so there is a lot of leverage associated at the top of the towers so again the cross brace will control alignment of the suspension as well as the frame. Was the cross brace in place when the frame shop did the frame alignment? Frank
 
Ron.

I agree with above comments when I was looking at you photos earlier I thought you had the cross brace fitted but looking at it again it looks like the lower cross member, it may be an illusion but it appears to have a slight bow upwards. The cross brace needs to fit without any modification so you will have to pull the towers one or both to get them back to where they should be. Thats the bad news the good news is I am sure you will work it out.

Graham
 
+1 with Graham. I am thinking the front end geometry is also dependent upon that cross brace being in it's true position .
 
Perhaps if you lift the car with A frame choker/nylon loop about 6 feet high right at the shock towers and at the center of the car and let the weight of the car pull down, the 2 shock towers will pull into each other and then you can bolt the brace in place down; you should probably pull out the shims you made just to be sure things can move.

With the shock towers off and the brace out, the wheel alignment will be off perpendicular.
steve
 
Steve mentions something I forgot about! How you jack these cars at the front determines how the towers settle. If you use a jack in the middle, the towers (and mounts) will spread. If you have trouble putting in the cross brace, then support the car on the suspension and it will move the towers inward. Between us all we will eventually remember everything?!?
 
CJD said:
Steve mentions something I forgot about! How you jack these cars at the front determines how the towers settle. If you use a jack in the middle, the towers (and mounts) will spread. If you have trouble putting in the cross brace, then support the car on the suspension and it will move the towers inward. Between us all we will eventually remember everything?!?
Click to expand...
Amen to that!
 
I have it sitting on the tires right now. I will jack it up and support it on jackstands and see what happens.

I've spent the past couple of days trying to enjoy Christmas with the family without thinking about the potential mess I now have on my hands. One thought and lesson is that I should have had the cross bar in place before I did any welding while replacing the fulcrum pin in that right shock tower. Just checking the fit before I did this work did no good. Cooling welds tend to pull things all over the place and I'm thinking a small amount of shrink at the base could translate into the 1/2" movement at the top. It likewise would pull and flatten the angle for the motor mount which would lead to the topic of this thread and my probably unnecessary machining of the mount wedges. Like I said, the cross bar fit perfectly when it came back from the frame shop so something changed between then and now.

I'm documenting this "oh-sh%t" so it hopefully will help someone in the future. I REALLY appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions.

Ron
 
One thing I learned about these cars is they flex a lot just going down the road. When you get the brace in, things will come back; it is still the same car. You did not change things that much. Heck in the back section of the frame when the body is off frame the frame moves a surprising amount, frame flex.
 
We have all had repairs that have not gone as planned. You will never make a mistake if you don't try. Look at how much better your project is than where it was when you started. You are doing a great job. It is smart to take a break, when you come back to it you will discover what is not just right, correct it, and move on. Steve is correct that there is a flex element to these cars. I think you will be able to move the towers and this may help with the motor mount problem. Take your time and analyze both problems and form a plan that will solve both as it seems both are related. Establish your centerline to see if one tower or both need to be moved. If you move that tower how does that effect the motor mount. Once yo know what to move go slow as you don't want to go too far. Good luck, we are here to help you as you proceed. Frank
 
A postscript/closure to this thread.

After waiting almost two months, I finally was able to get the frame back into the frame shop that did the initial repair to my frame. We took a look at the frame print together when I dropped it off this time and reviewed it. It became apparent that he misinterpreted the 13.5" dimension on the print as the one that referenced the center of the shock towers rather than the 13.18 dimension that is the correct one. That explains the 5/8-3/4" gap I observed when mounting the cross tube.

A day later he called that it was done so when I picked it up, I brought the cross tube and it fit much better with about an 1/8" gap. The bolts should be able to pull in.

I dropped the engine into the frame the other day and was very happy it sat correctly on the engine mounts. I no longer needed the angle shims I machined since apparently when pulling in the shock towers, the angle on the frame's engine mount plates changed as well. That makes sense given how they're attached to the shock tower and frame. I'm finally back to making progress on the rebuild and earlier today dropped the body on the frame.

The lesson learned on this little effort is I mistakenly believed the frame shop would correctly interpret the frame dimensions on the factory drawing (12x18" size). I should have thoroughly reviewed the frame dimensions and expectations when I dropped it off the first time. Second lesson is if you need to machine wonky shims to get something to fit, something else ain't right and needs to be fixed first.

Thank you to everyone's support and guidance as I worked through this. It is appreciated.

Ron
71 Triumph TR6
59 Triumph TR3A slowly coming back to life
 
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