My car seems to have gotten crypty's disease.

[70herald]

Caution annoyed rant coming up!

My car has obviously learned its lesson from crypty (or since it has been on blocks for 2 years now, maybe it taught crypty??)

Since I bought it, I replaced the diff ( I knew that was junked when I bought the car), the gearbox (large bits of the roller bearings in the oil) and then after 450 km of driving the engine lost all compression after it overheated and when I opened it up, I found that it was bored to the max, and in bad shape.

I got a different block, only .02" over and since it was rather filth inside, brought it right over to be machined. We had to go to .06" to get a good straight bore. Ok, I can live with that.

I finally got the block back in, and go to put the head on (I also rebuilt that) I ordered "heavy duty" head nuts, since Heavy duty is obviously better right? At 30 ft-lbs one popped. I replaced it and then at 32 a second bolt CRACKED. I talked to my supplier (one of the major triumph suppliers in the UK), and they said they have had no problems with these nuts, and use them in their shop all the time. But then odd, and they claim to have never seen this, but the nuts I got were somewhat oversized. (I needed a 15mm socket instead of a normal 9/16) They also told me they had never seen this. (They did send me new nuts no charge, and amazingly, they were the correct 9/16 across the flats)
Now today, I put in the new nuts, tightened everything to 30 ft-lbs, and new one suddenly goes soft. Now this may be my fault for reusing the studs esp after the crummy nuts, but they looked ok. So I replace the stud (with a different used one) and put an original nut back on. Then on my final "make sure everything is tight" another one started to move. Now fortunately, I stopped the wrench before I think I did any real damage, but this does NOT make me real happy. What I am planning on doing is just putting a second nut on top to lock it in place and leaving it that way.

Frankly I am getting tired of seeing this car in front of my apartment every time I walk outside. At least the flywheel run out was in spec after I tightened the bolts. I put the cover back on and am not going to look at the beast or anything else triumph related for a day or two!

 

[tomshobby]

Metric nuts on English threads, then English nuts on same English threads after they were deformed by Metric nuts. And things popped, snapped, and cracked? Sorry but I don't understand how this becomes the car's fault?

 

[TR3driver]

Standard practice as far as I'm concerned : every single time you have the head off, spin a new nut (with the correct threads) down the top end of the stud. It must spin easily all the way to the end of the threads. If it binds, the stud must be replaced.

since Heavy duty is obviously better right?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!!

 

[Brosky]

Based on your recommended standard practice procedure, I'd say you had your heart broken by a few stripped or cross threaded studs in your day.

Nothing like being down to your last compressible metal head gasket and having a stud or bolt snap off down below the surface. Not only do you have to tear it all back apart, but it's not going anywhere when you do!

I say that as my new head stud set arrives and I begin to look everything over. These will be bench threaded before the weekend is out, just in case there is an issue and I need replacements.

 

[TR3driver]

Based on your recommended standard practice procedure, I'd say you had your heart broken by a few stripped of cross threaded studs in your day.

Actually I've never let it go that far. TR3 studs are noticeably stouter than the later TRs, and just a visual inspection will usually show threads with that much damage.

But I have fought with head gaskets that refuse to stay sealed, and found more than a few studs that are stretched right below where the nut was before. The natural tendency when you have a leak is to torque them all "just a bit more" (I'm as guilty as the next guy), and the result is threads that will bind just when the nut should be clamping the head.

BTW the test was recommended to me by Ken Gillanders, of British Frame and Engine. Ken has several drag racing trophies won in his TR2 "back in the day", and is well known in the vintage racing world today.
https://www.britishframeandengine.com/

 

[Andrew Mace]

There are innumerable times when I wonder about the propriety -- or sanity -- of reusing old hardware, what with all the tales I've heard over the years. I admit that I have replaced many a bunged fastener in my time, but I've almost always done so with a good used one. (Fortunately, I have an almost never-ending supply, thanks to years of packrattedness -- if that's even a word.) So far, I've yet to have a problem as a result of this personal policy, for whatever that's worth. On the other hand, I have experienced more than a few problems caused by a [possibly]well-intentioned PO replacing some fastener with whatever the local discount hardware store had on sale; those also were almost always rectified with good used bits. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Maybe I've been too lucky too long, and this post will come back to bite me? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Tinster]

"well-intentioned PO replacing some fastener with whatever the local discount hardware store had on sale;"

Ah, so DPO Pedro was well-intentioned was he?

I am replacing every nut and bolt I can get at with new!
My faster shop swears they buy nothing made of India steel.

d

 

[TR3driver]

There are innumerable times when I wonder about the propriety -- or sanity -- of reusing old hardware ...

My take is that if it's not damaged or a limited-lifetime item (like a Nyloc nut), then it makes no sense to replace it with new.

Many of the fasteners on Triumphs are just a little bit odd, and it can be hard to tell sometimes whether it's important that that screw is 7/8" long instead of 3/4" or 1". (Wonder how many TR2/3 windshields have been sacrificed to that little ooops.)

And vendors sometimes make mistakes too. I'm convinced that many of the infamous TR6 clutch problems are because even the vendors don't realize that some of the bolts are 'special' and supply ordinary bolts. The shanks on the ordinary bolts are too small, and don't hold the gearbox in alignment with the flywheel.

70herald's experience with head nuts is a perfect case in point; obviously the nuts he got were the wrong thing. Somebody somewhere stuck their hand into the wrong bin or whatever.

So, IMO, blindly replacing fasteners with new is likely to create more problems than it solves. All repeat after me "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif

 

[Tinster]

repeat after me "If it ain't broke, and DPO Pedro had
anything to do with it, better replace it now or
you'll be brokedown on the side of the road."

Sorry Randall, normally I'd agree with you 100%.
The Crypt Car is an exception to many rules but
very well follows Murphy's Laws.

D

 

[TR3driver]

Suit yourself, but I still think you've got the wrong idea. I'm currently dealing with not one but two Stag gearboxes that have both been DPO'd, but I'm still only going to replace the parts that are wrong, damaged or consumable.

Wasn't it you that was just complaining about how much money you'd thrown at the problem, only to find out it was a new part causing it ? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[kodanja]

dont they shot lame horses?
have pity....

 

[70herald]

Metric nuts on English threads, then English nuts on same English threads after they were deformed by Metric nuts. And things popped, snapped, and cracked? Sorry but I don't understand how this becomes the car's fault?

No, they weren't metric nuts, the nuts were properly threaded 3/8 unf, but the exterior "AF" size was larger than normal. Upon very carefully inspecting them under a microscope at work, it is clear that the metal quality was just not up to spec, in addition to the odd spanner size.
I did recheck the studs before I the new nuts on and in fact they threaded on all the way with no problems, but obviously some damage was done to the threads by the first set of nuts.
The silly thing is that if I had just reused the original nuts, it would have gone together with no problem.

And no, it is not really the cars fault, I was hot, tired annoyed ...... and really would like to drive it somewhere.

 

[70herald]

70herald's experience with head nuts is a perfect case in point; obviously the nuts he got were the wrong thing. Somebody somewhere stuck their hand into the wrong bin or whatever.

So, IMO, blindly replacing fasteners with new is likely to create more problems than it solves. All repeat after me "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif

After several discussions with the supplier, I am pretty sure that their supplier slipped up. The nuts were supplied in a bag with the County sticker, still sealed and properly labeled. My guess is that they (County) got a bad batch from their supplier, and caught it but a few slipped through. The UK shop I got these from told me they have been using this batch for the last few years, in their own shop with no problem and were surprised that the spanner size was strange on mine.


And yes, I agree, blindly replacing old fasteners is not a great idea.

 

[RonMacPherson]

I kinda wonder if these are "real" ARP studs. Wonder how many times they've been repackaged.

I used to know some of the guys at ARP, back in the days when we would chase Dan Gurney through the orange groves(like we teenagers were ever going to catch him).

They went on to build a manufacturing facility that they are understandably proud of and I believe they would be very interested in hearing of your plight.

Why, so they can trace the flow of product, as I believe that they're "pirated" parts somewhere in the chain.

They would be very interested in bringing to justice people who are damaging their reputation(especially from a liability concern point of view).

So, can I recommend, do a search for ARP fasteners and start an email correspondence with them.

 

[TR3driver]

They would be very interested in bringing to justice people who are damaging their reputation(especially from a liability concern point of view).

I believe they would also be interested in replacing defective products. Probably not as interested in replacing defective imitations, but they might still give you a good price on the real thing.

So, can I recommend, do a search for ARP fasteners and start an email correspondence with them.

https://www.arp-bolts.com/
info@arpfasteners.com

BTW, Tinster, not all bad fasteners come from India. Many of them come from China ... and factories all over the world are using Chinese steel now. Some of it is OK; but some of it isn't. And it's even being used here in the USA, since it's no longer economical to refine iron here.

 

[Brosky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] and factories all over the world are using Chinese steel now[/QUOTE]

The Chinese began cornering the stainless steel and nickel market over three years ago. It started quietly and became very evident in the spring of 2006. You can now buy medical grade stainless that passes every metallurgical test that you can throw at it for 40% less than in the states.

This same scenario occurred 8-10 years ago with Japan, who has developed the electric furnace to near perfection for making steel. The Chinese don't care about emissions, so they are still doing it the old fashion way.

 

[70herald]

I kinda wonder if these are "real" ARP studs. Wonder how many times they've been repackaged.

Neither the first or second bolts were or were portrayed as being ARP. However, since I now need to replace 1 or more of the studs anyway, and I really don't trust the whole muck which developed as a result of a set of bad nuts I will order the ARP set this time.