I have compleately lost it...

[DrEntropy]

When a 350 Chebby mill replaces the Buick one?

 

[Dino_V]

very nice!

 

[TRED]

Looks really good to me, hope it works as good as it looks. Modern EFI should make for a really nice performer.

 

[Brosky]

I don't know Randy. I didn't buy it because I was in love with the rubber bumpers, nor did I even keep them on my TR6. I guess we are still free to do what we want with them, whether it be a concours restoration or whatever anyone wants to call changing things to suit yourself.

Some guys like the stock look of the TR8, I only happened to like about 80% of it, so I did it my way.

And Doc, no Chebbie motor for me. I have a new, nicely rebuilt 3.9 with a set of 4.0 heads that are ported well and matched to the headers. Those improvements along with the new cam design that Woody came up with make for a pretty quick car.

 

[DrEntropy]

And Doc, no Chebbie motor for me.

I'd expect not. Tho we've not done a face-to-face, I suspect there's a bit of common interest. :wink:

 

[DNK]

Vette motor looks pretty , pretty good under that wedge bonnet

 

[GBRandy]

Geez Paul. Little tender? Look, my point is only about at what point a car is no longer a Triumph. Clearly that eBay mess with a Monte Carlo drive train & frame, modified Firebird rear end, over sized wheels, and completely hacked up dash is no more a Triumph than it is a Chevy Monte Carlo. I think we would all agree that it is no longer a Triumph despite the sellers claim.

Certainly an all stock TR8 is indeed a Triumph. The gray area lies between the two points...hence my question. When does it stop being a Triumph and start being a kit / rod project?

Dr E. I trust your remark was done in a sarcastic tone. Yes, the original TR8 engine was purchased from GM in the 1960's. As everyone knows a car designed and built by a manufacturer with proper & matching numbers carriers more value in the collector world than one that has been modified.

I have a Delco alternator and a canvas top. Neither is original and I lost points in concourse because of it (I took 3rd at Nationals that year). But I consider the car a Triumph...maybe its not.

You guys have your opinion and I have mine. But when I read requests for help on TR7 engine issues and open up the e-mail and find out is has a Chevy V6 in it...what am I supposed to do as Triumph guy? To me, it is no longer a Triumph and the guy needs to go to a Chevy forum. Aero re-designs and overheating would have similar reactions.

So....to the question I originally posted and prior to the interesting reactions I got....at what point does the car stop becoming a Triumph?

 

[hondo402000]

when you take the Triumph badge off of it?

Hondo

 

[TRED]

If it started as a Triumph, looks like a Triumph and is titled as a Triumph I would call it a Triumph.
But what would I know LOL

Geez Paul. Little tender? Look, my point is only about at what point a car is no longer a Triumph. Clearly that eBay mess with a Monte Carlo drive train & frame, modified Firebird rear end, over sized wheels, and completely hacked up dash is no more a Triumph than it is a Chevy Monte Carlo. I think we would all agree that it is no longer a Triumph despite the sellers claim.

Certainly an all stock TR8 is indeed a Triumph. The gray area lies between the two points...hence my question. When does it stop being a Triumph and start being a kit / rod project?

Dr E. I trust your remark was done in a sarcastic tone. Yes, the original TR8 engine was purchased from GM in the 1960's. As everyone knows a car designed and built by a manufacturer with proper & matching numbers carriers more value in the collector world than one that has been modified.

I have a Delco alternator and a canvas top. Neither is original and I lost points in concourse because of it (I took 3rd at Nationals that year). But I consider the car a Triumph...maybe its not.

You guys have your opinion and I have mine. But when I read requests for help on TR7 engine issues and open up the e-mail and find out is has a Chevy V6 in it...what am I supposed to do as Triumph guy? To me, it is no longer a Triumph and the guy needs to go to a Chevy forum. Aero re-designs and overheating would have similar reactions.

So....to the question I originally posted and prior to the interesting reactions I got....at what point does the car stop becoming a Triumph?

 

[vagt6]

Randy, it appears that we have a big tent here, room enough for everyone's tastes. Generally this crowd tends to lean more toward the "correct" side, I think.

Personally, I'm glad Randy speaks up on these issues. Preserving the marque is a lofty goal, and I applaud those who strive for a correct restoration, every one of them.

However, as much as I like correct cars, I also like modified ones. I drive an MG Midget that has enough Datsun parts (210 gearbox; alernator, starter) in it to possibly qualify as a "ricer". It's also a show winner. I've also restored Triumphs, from rust buckets, and none were completely "correct" or original. Close, but not concours.

And to answer Randy's question, I think the car remains a Triumph as long as the owner cares for it. Concours judges will opine differently, but for me, if we really take good care of the car, it lives on for the next owner to enjoy (or to restore back to original).

Preserving the car for the next owner is what matters (and there will be a "next owner"). Even if the car is butchered, at least part of it survives. I wish everyone would restore them correctly, but that's just not gonna happen.

FWIW.

 

[DNK]

Geez guys, sorry i brought it up!

 

[GBRandy]

I am not trying to be exclusionary here. Anyone can post in the forum. I just want to know others opinions on where that line in the sand is. I keep things stock because I look at it as piece of history representing a car company and era that no longer exists.

If you begin to drastically change things it becomes less of a history piece and more of a hot rod and reason to discuss how to stuff today's technology into an old car. That's fine....but in my book I think you are swapping history & collectibility with hot rodding. Once again, fine, but then where does it stop being a Triumph?

There is a great write up in Sports Car Market Magazine last month about Ferrari owners converting their vintage California coupe's and turning them into Spiders. The coupe sells for $300K. Spiders push $3,000,000. Ferrari actually wrote a letter denouncing the practice, declaring the car no more than trash and that it did not represent the brand. They demanded, and received, the removal of a converted car from an auction if it was advertised as a Ferrari. Interesting stuff....

Tred: You are way on the other side of the line in my book :wink:

 

[TR3driver]

So....to the question I originally posted and prior to the interesting reactions I got....at what point does the car stop becoming a Triumph?

What's in a name? That which we call a rose, By any other name would smell as sweet.

I don't think there is a clear line, but a wide spectrum. One end has a pristine TR2, correct in every detail (including the horrible colors) but with modern fuel in the petrol tank. (NOS petrol is SO hard to find!)
At the other end is a Spitfire body shell, resting on a tubular space frame carrying a blown 426 Hemi.
Somewhere in the middle, there is a TR3A with a TR8 drivetrain (that I'd love to buy but the owner keeps backing out).
All are interesting cars, worthy of judgment on their own merit, IMO.

In other words, it's your car, it should please you. And if you want to call it a (modified) Triumph, that's your choice too.

PS, in the cited Ferrari case, as long as the car was advertised as a converted coupe, I don't see a problem. If it was advertised as a Spider, though, that is fraud and someone should have gone to jail.

 

[Brosky]

Randy, I'm not really sensitive about it. I was just expressing my point. I like these cars in all forms.

Well.....almost all forms. I wasn't wild about the TR8 with the jacked up rear end, but he may not like my bumpers or my red engine in the TR6. I never worry about what people think of me or my car.

If we were all talking face to face, you could have seen the grin on my face when I was typing back earlier. Sadly, there are time on the net when things don't come across the same as in real life conversations.

I take no offense and I mean to offer none to anyone. Life is too short and so is our driving season, so let's try to enjoy both.

 

[mrv8q]

Somewhere in the middle, there is a TR3A with a TR8 drivetrain (that I'd love to buy but the owner keeps backing out).

Now there's a car I want to see!

 

[TR3driver]

Now there's a car I want to see!

Can't promise anything, but he sometimes shows up for the New Year's Day run. In the meantime, here's a photo

 

[Brosky]

There is a guy in New England that shows up at the Cape Cod shows with a stunning black TR3 with a small block Ford in it. I think that it looks fabulous with the wider fenders/tires and the work done was absolutely first class.

 

[GBRandy]

You guys don't see it do you? I am not saying those aren't neat cars. Not saying you cant tweak your own car and do to it what you please....hardly saying any of that. I am simply asking....are they a Triumph anymore?

I am looking at buying a Model A. There are two very distinct camps. Original & hot rods. Very little (actually no) middle ground. The line is not that defined here and I am just curious where it is.

For the record...in my book, a TR3 with a Ford motor is a kit car. Not a Triumph. Regardless of the title.

Another way I might look at it involves my flying background. An engine overhaul to manufacturer specs is routine and expected. An engine swap with something not designed installed by the factory requires re-certification from the FAA becuase it is untested, unproven and unique to that airplane.....in other words, no longer oem and unsupported by them.

 

[DrEntropy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] For the record...in my book, a TR3 with a Ford motor is a kit car. Not a Triumph. Regardless of the title. [/QUOTE]

I gotta agree with ya, Randy.

 

[DNK]

Not to fuel the flames as I am sorry it got this far, but...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.d...id=280155054445