I have compleately lost it...

[TR3driver]

For the record...in my book, a TR3 with a Ford motor is a kit car. Not a Triumph. Regardless of the title.

Does the same thing apply to your TR8, which has a motor designed by GM?

I believe I understand your point; my point is that with Triumphs there is no clear line. The reason the Model A falls neatly into two separate categories is that a stock Model A is not a practical car to drive on the street. Anyone who wants to drive one on a regular basis must make some substantial modifications, a hot rod as you call it. Triumphs of a similar age have the same distinction; when was the last time you saw a Triumph Gloria with fat tires on it??

Nor do we have the FAA breathing down our necks. (Which is a Good Thing) But even they do sometimes approve engine changes. I don't know the details, but my father used to own a PT-19 that had the original Ranger engine replaced with a more powerful Continental.

BTW, Triumph sold "kit cars" as well so being a kit car doesn't necessarily mean it's not a Triumph. My TR3 would probably fit that class as well, since it was in pieces when I bought it, and was assembled with pieces of four different cars. But I don't think anyone would accuse it of not being a Triumph, even though it will never win a concours award.

 

[TRED]

If you draw a line in the sand I believe you would be splitting people up. A Triumph is a Triumph, one might be bone stock and one might be highly modded. Their are purests and hot rodders and some people that have both types of cars.
Any place I go friends ask me where's "THE TRIUMPH" and thats even when I drive my yellow near stock TR6.

 

[Brosky]

We obviously all have different views and that is fine. The owners of the cars have a right to call then whatever they want to call them, no matter what they do in the form of modifications. Likewise, the observer can choose to form an opinion in his or her mind as to what the results of any modifications do to the value and originality of the the car, but since they have no money or sweat invested in the car, that opinion isn't worth much to the owner.

The only time any of this means anything is when an owner is trying to sell a car to one who either likes (gets more money) or dislikes (loses money) whatever has been done to a car. Other than that this isn't much more than something to agree to disagree over.

 

[GBRandy]

Does the same thing apply to your TR8, which has a motor designed by GM?

I covered that earlier...and why I think some just do not see what I am saying. A TR8 was deigned and built to be a TR8. Spec'd with Rover / Triumph parts (albeit an engine that was purchased from GM in the 1960's and tweaked by Rover). It is a car built, tested, marketed and sold as a TR8. Brochures exit, ad's exist, window stickers with detailed specifications & pricing exist. It is a TR8.

Is it a TR8 if I put a 1990 Range Rover 4.0 in a TR7? Of course not.

An original car, with matching numbers, has far more collectibility in the <span style="text-decoration: underline">collector world</span> than one that does not. Some people don't care about the collectibility....and that's fine. Tweak & change away. I really don't care.

Perhaps all the comments made here should lead me to conclude that Triumph's do not have a serious collectibility and heavy handed changes have no effect on anything because they are not a collectible car. That could be.

The question still remains, how far away from the original specification & factory build do you have to go before it is no longer a Triumph?

 

[GBRandy]

We obviously all have different views and that is fine. The owners of the cars have a right to call then whatever they want to call them, no matter what they do in the form of modifications.

No. That's incorrect. So I can call my car a Buick because it has an engine developed by GM in the 1960's? That car was designed & built by Triumph to be a Triumph and that is what it is.

You seem to rush to some conclusion that I am bashing modifications. I am not. People spend the money, buy the car and can do with it what they want....

But you have to admit, at some point you trip over a line where the car is a home built kit and no longer a Triumph.

We all know there is no clear answer here. But it does get one thinking.

 

[Brosky]

Okay. You have your views and I have mine, along with everyone else here.

You might be correct in saying that there is no clear answer here.

And as so far as thinking, I am sure that I've spent enough time thinking about it.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Y'all are making my head hurt.

Isn't it time to let this one go?

 

[GBRandy]

My TR3 would probably fit that class as well, since it was in pieces when I bought it, and was assembled with pieces of four different cars. But I don't think anyone would accuse it of not being a Triumph, even though it will never win a concours award.

I re-read this and that's actually dead on point. When you rebuilt your TR3, you put it back to standards that were, well, a TR3 as designed by Triumph. Concourse points aside, the final product from four cars is one that is built as Triumph intended.....different than if you widened the fenders, bolted in a chevy corvette rear end and Z06 engine...




I am obviously ruffling some feathers here and that's not my intention.

 

[Tr3aguy]

OK this has been an interesting thread....can we all grab a car....and go for a ride.....
I will........ when I finish the restoration on my TR3, at some point. It will be a close to original as possible, just because I told the previous owner that was how I would do it.

 

[vagt6]

Randy, since no one answered your question "correctly", could you enlighten us regarding your take on it?

 

[TRED]

Randy, let me assure you my car wasn't built with a kit, I purchased it way back in 1973, it was 4 years old and had 49,000 miles. In 1987 with well over 100,ooo miles and while performing a airborn stunt, gravity and a telephone pole brought my TR6 and me back to earth. With the right front pushed way back the car sat for years. Around 1999 it was either scape what was left of the car or build a V8 powered car, a AC Cobra type car but with a TR6 body and my drag race Pontiac engine. My doors are 8" longer thanks to a $25 pair of rusty TR6 front fenders with the bottoms rusted away. The turbo cover and the low spot on the hood are parts cut from a $60 TR4 hood, my bubby had 6 of them. My milling machine looks like a 4.5" hand grinder. After what was way to many hours in my two car garage, my old friend of 38 years is still out bring smiles to peoples faces and most of all me. Long live "The TRIUMPH"

 

[justin_mercier]

My TR6 restoration in progress will certainly be a modified car when it's done, and it's my choice. It wont be as extreme as Ed's (awesome) car, and it will still have the stock (albiet modified) engine, but I'm making it MY car. Actually the styling will be very similar to Dave DeWalt's TR6 with the BMW M3 Engine. I'll be 'shaving' the front side markers, getting rid of the bumpers for rally-rails / towel rails, and I'll even be having the fuel tank in the wheel well, instead of the stock location... I'll also be putting a big loud sound system in it (where the stock fuel tank is... will be space for a large subwoofer enclosure now, miata seats, toyota 5 speed conversion, removing the stock heater box, etc.

When it's done... I still say it's a triumph. I sold my TR7 (remind me to take it out of my sig) partly because I knew once the 6 was done, I wouldn't be driving the wedge as much, but also because, the wedge was in such fantastic original unmolested condition... I couldn't see myself keeping my hands off and keeping it an original survivor. Some cars 'should' be kept stock, when they're already worth keeping there, but other cars... well, it's costing me a lot of money to completely frame off my TR6... but it would cost me a whole lot more if I wanted to keep it 'concourse' and ... I wouldn't have as much fun with it !

 

[GBRandy]

Randy, since no one answered your question "correctly", could you enlighten us regarding your take on it?

You don't get it do you? I have been polite, on topic and careful this entire time. I said there was no "correct" answer. I have not ridden any high horses here. I have not down played any car short of saying where I thought it crossed a line from original to kit / rod. I asked an honest question looking for perspective...and you post that?

If you need "my take" on it. Read the whole thread it is all there for you. Seriously....dude....

I have owned, restored & repaired MG's, Jags & Triumphs since 1980. I asked an honest question that has brought out some amazing responses and touched some nerves I never would have expected. I make no apologizes for it. It is a real question to consider. Nothing more.

Enlightening? Yes. If somehow you find my question about where it stops being a Triumph upsetting, insulting or maddening, do not post anything to me. Go look in the mirror and ask yourself why that question upsets you.

I have to go put the TR8 and the 355 into storage tomorrow and I have work to do.

 

[TR3driver]

You don't get it do you? I have been polite,

No, you're the one that doesn't get it. You have asked for a matter of opinion, and lots of people have shared their opinions. Then you say we "don't get it" because those opinions don't agree with yours. That is not polite.

BTW, while my TR3 is mostly Triumph parts, it isn't "as designed by Triumph" (which ceased to exist as a motorcar company in what, 1939?), since quite a few parts came from later cars (TR6 gearbox, TR4 overdrive, TR6 wheels etc).

Your opinion seems to be that unless someone at BLMC or Leyland, or Standard slapped on a badge that said Triumph, then it's not a "Triumph". Why is it so hard for you to say that?

And you never did answer my question about "Triumph" kits.

 

[GBRandy]

BS Randall. Pure BS. I have never pressed my opinion on anyone here. Go re-read the thread. If you think I did, you are reading to deep into my posts. Period.

I asked a question. Nothing more.

 

[TR3driver]

You guys don't see it do you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]You don't get it do you? [/QUOTE]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]BS Randall. Pure BS.[/QUOTE]

If you are going to deny you wrote that, you need to at least delete the posts.

 

[GBRandy]

Your opinion seems to be that unless someone at BLMC or Leyland, or Standard slapped on a badge that said Triumph, then it's not a "Triumph". Why is it so hard for you to say that?

Not..........

As an add on. You didn't read all my posts did you? Early on I stated the changes & adjustments I made to my car and questioned if that was enough to declare it no longer a Triumph.

I asked a provocative question and you folks went wild. Wowzer.....

 

[GBRandy]

You guys don't see it do you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]You don't get it do you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]BS Randall. Pure BS.[/QUOTE]

If you are going to deny you wrote that, you need to at least delete the posts. [/QUOTE]

Of course I didn't delete it....I know what I wrote and I stand by it. Read my question....without emotion and maybe you'll understand the question.

 

[TR3driver]

Read my question....without emotion and maybe you'll understand the question.

Read my answer.....without emotion and maybe you'll understand the answer.

 

[GBRandy]

Read my question....without emotion and maybe you'll understand the question.

Read my answer.....without emotion and maybe you'll understand the answer.

Seriously? I just sent you my cell number. Call me. I'll explain in person.