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Has anyone considered Power Rack and Pinion Stearing and/or an Air Bag suspension
- Thread starter RAC68
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OP
RAC68
Darth Vader
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Michael,
Your choice.
Personally, I see Helper Air Bags as having the potential to possible be a permanent correction to leaf spring sag and, when it gets warmer, will evaluate what would be needed to replace the rubber axel/spring bumper and bumper box with an Air Bag mounting location on each side. If it is as I anticipate, this could be more economical then arching springs and also provides the ability to add a variable amount of added stiffness and height to the rear suspension while still using the leaf springs as the primary rear suspension component.
Ray(64BJ8)
Your choice.
Personally, I see Helper Air Bags as having the potential to possible be a permanent correction to leaf spring sag and, when it gets warmer, will evaluate what would be needed to replace the rubber axel/spring bumper and bumper box with an Air Bag mounting location on each side. If it is as I anticipate, this could be more economical then arching springs and also provides the ability to add a variable amount of added stiffness and height to the rear suspension while still using the leaf springs as the primary rear suspension component.
Ray(64BJ8)
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Dave - I added a 12v buzzer in parallel with the dash turn light - works great as a reminder.
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Ray--
I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on the discussion and yes I guess I was reflecting my view on mods I would consider doing.
I'm far from conservative on originality and have plenty of modifications on my Healey including a 5-speed transmission, hydraulic (BJ8) clutch, front (BT7) disc brakes, Putske tubular shocks F & R, electronic ignition (Mallory Unilite), alternator, etc. Generally I did most of them when prompted by the original units' breaking/failing and saw an opportunity to replace it with something that offered improved performance and/or reliability without changing the basic nature of the car (Yes, I know that a 5-speed non-OD transmission is, to some folks, a pretty big departure from original but I was certainly not going to replace the broken original and positively archane POS 3-speed/manual with another POS 3-speed assuming I could find one).
I guess I am saying that I probably would not consider a major mod (such as power steering or airbags) on a recreational basis, and though I agree that the air bag might be an easy way to fix my current problem of what is probably worn-out rear springs I would simply prefer to stick with original technology and get new springs or perhaps re-arch the present ones if that seems a better fix. Yes, Healeys have less than wonderful steering and at low speeds or when parking, it might be a bit heavy, but for me the semi-antique suspension and steering is a part of our cars' character, if not charm.
Despite my opinion I'm sure this discussion will continue along until we have played it out/beat it to death as we always do, and I must admit that the vision of a low-rider Healey bouncing up and down would be entertaining--but I wouldn't do it!
I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on the discussion and yes I guess I was reflecting my view on mods I would consider doing.
I'm far from conservative on originality and have plenty of modifications on my Healey including a 5-speed transmission, hydraulic (BJ8) clutch, front (BT7) disc brakes, Putske tubular shocks F & R, electronic ignition (Mallory Unilite), alternator, etc. Generally I did most of them when prompted by the original units' breaking/failing and saw an opportunity to replace it with something that offered improved performance and/or reliability without changing the basic nature of the car (Yes, I know that a 5-speed non-OD transmission is, to some folks, a pretty big departure from original but I was certainly not going to replace the broken original and positively archane POS 3-speed/manual with another POS 3-speed assuming I could find one).
I guess I am saying that I probably would not consider a major mod (such as power steering or airbags) on a recreational basis, and though I agree that the air bag might be an easy way to fix my current problem of what is probably worn-out rear springs I would simply prefer to stick with original technology and get new springs or perhaps re-arch the present ones if that seems a better fix. Yes, Healeys have less than wonderful steering and at low speeds or when parking, it might be a bit heavy, but for me the semi-antique suspension and steering is a part of our cars' character, if not charm.
Despite my opinion I'm sure this discussion will continue along until we have played it out/beat it to death as we always do, and I must admit that the vision of a low-rider Healey bouncing up and down would be entertaining--but I wouldn't do it!
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Rob Glasgow
Jedi Knight
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I added a Radio Shack buzzer to the turn signal circuit but removed it because I couldn't stand the noise at the stop light. What I really need is to install a delay buzzer that will signal me when self-cancelling feature doesn't work after 30 seconds or so. Until I do that, I'll be the old man who drives with his turn signal flashing.....but in the world's coolest car.
CLEAH
Jedi Warrior
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Steve, that is exactly the reason why bags on the rear of a truck are valved separately, so that a heavy load can be tweaked and leveled side to side, which is critical for safe handling. I doubt the bachelor's lean on a Healey measurably affects handling, but it doesn't look real good and bugs enough people that it really does seem like a viable option.
And I really do think that suspension bottoming is a real issue on Healeys, and always has been. That is one of the other reasons bags are put on suspensions. So it seems like, if it can be made to work, it belongs on Michael's long list of viable mods.
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One of the big problems with Healey suspensions is because the frame rails are under the rear axle. The axle bangs the frame rails, causing deformation. I would think airbags would make this worse.
OP
RAC68
Darth Vader
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John,
You are definitely correct in your suggestion that bottoming is not good for the Healey (frame or body). The issue, as you've described, is the ease at which the axel, captured between the frame and body, can move up quickly, after the wheels encounter a substantial bump, causing the bump rubber to strike and lift the body-frame combination. This violent movement would place the axel closer to the frame in its upward path and after, the counter response would be for the axel to drop faster then the body-frame thereby violently striking the close-positioned frame. Although the body-frame would also descend, extending the space between the axel and frame, its drop would be slower in response to overall body/frame/suspension factors. As I see it, the axel is much less constrained in its movement, depending on shock and leaf springs for management.
By eliminating the bump-box and bumper rubber and replacing with a helper Air Bag, the initial upward movement of the axel will be better controlled with no sudden hard encounter with the surrounding body or frame. The air bag would greatly lessen the force and speed of the upward movement of the axel along with its velocity and force during any Body-Frame encounters. The relational position of the axel, originally maintained by the leaf springs, will be far less fluid during this type of encounter as I expect the air bag to aid the shocks in their movement-restraining efforts in comparison to the relative easy compliance to quick movement of the leaf springs and shocks alone. I expect there would be a reduction in axel swing amplitude during such encounters resulting in less downward response velocity toward the frame.
John, these are my thought but we will only know after a set is installed.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
You are definitely correct in your suggestion that bottoming is not good for the Healey (frame or body). The issue, as you've described, is the ease at which the axel, captured between the frame and body, can move up quickly, after the wheels encounter a substantial bump, causing the bump rubber to strike and lift the body-frame combination. This violent movement would place the axel closer to the frame in its upward path and after, the counter response would be for the axel to drop faster then the body-frame thereby violently striking the close-positioned frame. Although the body-frame would also descend, extending the space between the axel and frame, its drop would be slower in response to overall body/frame/suspension factors. As I see it, the axel is much less constrained in its movement, depending on shock and leaf springs for management.
By eliminating the bump-box and bumper rubber and replacing with a helper Air Bag, the initial upward movement of the axel will be better controlled with no sudden hard encounter with the surrounding body or frame. The air bag would greatly lessen the force and speed of the upward movement of the axel along with its velocity and force during any Body-Frame encounters. The relational position of the axel, originally maintained by the leaf springs, will be far less fluid during this type of encounter as I expect the air bag to aid the shocks in their movement-restraining efforts in comparison to the relative easy compliance to quick movement of the leaf springs and shocks alone. I expect there would be a reduction in axel swing amplitude during such encounters resulting in less downward response velocity toward the frame.
John, these are my thought but we will only know after a set is installed.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
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turtle
Senior Member
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I have anti tramp bars in back... because V8. I just had them replaced since one was bent... I didn't do it! The new ones are much stronger.
I also have adjustable shocks in the rear replacing the levers. I plan to add them in the front as well.
Here's two good shots of another car from the tech session David Nock had yesterday at British Car Specialists for the Golden Gate Austin Healey Club. It's a BN1. Mine's a BN2 but it was awesome to see what my car looks like under the skin.
You can see the shock setup really well. Stronger and cheaper that new levers and adjustable. You can keep the old levers up front and even get the new shocks painted to match.
I also have adjustable shocks in the rear replacing the levers. I plan to add them in the front as well.
Here's two good shots of another car from the tech session David Nock had yesterday at British Car Specialists for the Golden Gate Austin Healey Club. It's a BN1. Mine's a BN2 but it was awesome to see what my car looks like under the skin.
You can see the shock setup really well. Stronger and cheaper that new levers and adjustable. You can keep the old levers up front and even get the new shocks painted to match.
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Legal Bill
Jedi Knight
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Did anyone answer the OP's question about fitting a power rack and pinion steering unit? I don't think I saw that discussed above. I own a Honda S2000 and can attest that the steering is superb.
OP
RAC68
Darth Vader
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Hi Bill,
No, a conversion was not addressed. It seems that most feel EPS is an unneeded option and some even felt that, unlike air conditioning or an alternator, it would be a major factor in loosing the unique character of their Healey .
Although I have no intention of implementing EPS or R&P steering on my Healey, I was impressed at how far this technology has progressed and am interested in its implementation on my TR7.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
No, a conversion was not addressed. It seems that most feel EPS is an unneeded option and some even felt that, unlike air conditioning or an alternator, it would be a major factor in loosing the unique character of their Healey .
Although I have no intention of implementing EPS or R&P steering on my Healey, I was impressed at how far this technology has progressed and am interested in its implementation on my TR7.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
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