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After 25+ trouble free years of service, my aftermarket low-pressure (<4PSI) Germany made HUCO fuel pump failed and likely due to 10% ethanol in pump gas. It was replaced with a facet gold fuel pump https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=2698&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm . But beware of knock-offs; Pegasus is a reliable source. GONZO
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Hardi Fuel Pump
- Thread starter Bob_Spidell
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Randy Forbes
Yoda
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I've had one of these Facet cylindrical style pumps on mine since the early 90s (exact date unknown). It DELIVERS the fuel at lowish pressure AND the sound you'd expect to hear when turning on the Healey's ignition. Plumbing? Well how original do you want it to look when you're at a standstill off in the desert somewhere...?
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8674
I'd moved mine to the RH-side of the car, as sitting over the exhaust pipes didn't seem that logical to me!
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8674
I'd moved mine to the RH-side of the car, as sitting over the exhaust pipes didn't seem that logical to me!
OP
Bob_Spidell
Yoda
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That's a clean installation (as we'd expect 
). Looking at the top photo, at first I thought it was mounted horizontally.
re" ... sitting over the exhaust pipes didn't seem that logical to me!"
Even BMC figured that out (eventually).
I'm still searching for one of the legendary points-fired SU pumps that go 50 years and 200,000 miles without a hiccup, as I'm told elsewhere they do exist.
). Looking at the top photo, at first I thought it was mounted horizontally. re" ... sitting over the exhaust pipes didn't seem that logical to me!"
Even BMC figured that out (eventually).
I'm still searching for one of the legendary points-fired SU pumps that go 50 years and 200,000 miles without a hiccup, as I'm told elsewhere they do exist.
Online
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Derek, I believe your plan is a good one. If I ever get around to revamping my fuel system again, I believe I will remove my extra pump from the left side and then install a double ended pump on the right in the original location. The left side pump has always been a concern to me being above the exhaust pipes. But then no leaks yet in 5 years. Knock on wood. I was going to fabricate a drip pan or shield of some type when I installed it. After doing some design work for about an hour a while back, I decided that was a waist of time. If it leaks the vapors and drips are still going to eventually get to the exhaust pipes. Best plan, don't put the pump on the left side at all.
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IMO leaks are not the problem, vapor lock with ethanol fuels are the problems.
I moved the rear part of my fuel line to the inside of the frame rail (separated by the rail from the exhaust) and installed a heat shield. No problems so far even in 90+ degree driving, though the right side seems like the best overall solution for the pump location.
RAC68
Darth Vader
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Vette,
As I eluded to in my previous post on the Optically triggered head I carry for backup, I always felt the vulnerable failure prone portion of the SU pump was the triggering head section. I believe SU also feels the same and designed the double headed SU you mentioned to address the issue.
Many discussions were posted in which 2 gas pumps were installed in series with the active unit selected via a dash switch. Additionally, 2 pumps could also be mounted in parallel These 2 approaches had many similar benefits and drawbacks with the series arrangement providing greater installation simplicity and faster backup take-over as a result of having fuel passing through both units. However, the drawback in a series installation is that if dirt blocked one pump, the backup would probably also be starved of fuel assuming the lead pump (first from the tank) would catch the dirt.
Has anyone installed a backup in series or parallel? What was the recovery experience with either approach?
Ray(64BJ8P1)
As I eluded to in my previous post on the Optically triggered head I carry for backup, I always felt the vulnerable failure prone portion of the SU pump was the triggering head section. I believe SU also feels the same and designed the double headed SU you mentioned to address the issue.
Many discussions were posted in which 2 gas pumps were installed in series with the active unit selected via a dash switch. Additionally, 2 pumps could also be mounted in parallel These 2 approaches had many similar benefits and drawbacks with the series arrangement providing greater installation simplicity and faster backup take-over as a result of having fuel passing through both units. However, the drawback in a series installation is that if dirt blocked one pump, the backup would probably also be starved of fuel assuming the lead pump (first from the tank) would catch the dirt.
Has anyone installed a backup in series or parallel? What was the recovery experience with either approach?
Ray(64BJ8P1)
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At one time I had two pumps in parallel with a selector switch but one of the pumps apparently developed a defective check valve on its output side which created an "endless loop" with part of the second pump's output going back through the first pump, resulting in insufficient fuel to engine. Subsequently I went to a series installation with a square FACET mounted up under the left rear wheel arch. This worked fine until I decided upon the present installatio: a double-headed SU pump that DD reconditioned and converted to solid state for me.
In all cases I have relied upon a fuel filter spliced into the fuel line between tank and pump(s) to remove trash before it gets to the latter.
In all cases I have relied upon a fuel filter spliced into the fuel line between tank and pump(s) to remove trash before it gets to the latter.
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IMO leaks are not the problem, vapor lock with ethanol fuels are the problems. ]
I guess that is a possibility but I have not experienced the problem in 5 summers of driving.
Ray, Yes, I have been running two pumps in series for 5 years, with separate switches on the dash. The system works very well. My reason for building it this way was because of potential failure of a fuel pump. As for dirt. Yes you are right again. But If you build a new car, as I have with a new tank, dirt should be of little concern. But 2 characteristics in the system should also assauge any concern. One is that SU pumps with their coarse internal filter will pass most boulders on through.Second, you could just install a filter ahead of the first pump as Steve did. Here is a pic of my set up although it doesn't show both sides the left side is identical to the right side.
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RAC68
Darth Vader
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Hi All,
There were a few things that Dave DuBois said about fuel pumps that stayed with me. The first is that the fuel line extending from the tank to the pump provided the ground for the fuel gauge, the SU pump is capable of pass rocks, and yet another is the pump coil can generate in excess of 200 volts of point-deteriorating power. When considering the first 2, it stands to reason that, if using SU pumps, it is more prudent to place the separate filter before the carburetors and allow the pumps and fuel line to remain intact (with intact gauge ground).
However, if using non-SU pumps, it may be more advantageous to place the filter before the pumps and allow it to provide a full measure of protection. In this case, however, don't forget to install a separate ground wire on the sending unit to supply gauge grounding for that which is lost by severing the line to the pump for the installation of a filter.
Just a thought,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
There were a few things that Dave DuBois said about fuel pumps that stayed with me. The first is that the fuel line extending from the tank to the pump provided the ground for the fuel gauge, the SU pump is capable of pass rocks, and yet another is the pump coil can generate in excess of 200 volts of point-deteriorating power. When considering the first 2, it stands to reason that, if using SU pumps, it is more prudent to place the separate filter before the carburetors and allow the pumps and fuel line to remain intact (with intact gauge ground).
However, if using non-SU pumps, it may be more advantageous to place the filter before the pumps and allow it to provide a full measure of protection. In this case, however, don't forget to install a separate ground wire on the sending unit to supply gauge grounding for that which is lost by severing the line to the pump for the installation of a filter.
Just a thought,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Online
Ray--
I believe the fuel line provides a ground for the fuel sender, not the fuel gauge.
Because the filter basket in an SU pump is both coarse and of small capacity I believe it makes more sense to place a finer filter before it and effectively remove the SU's filter from the equation. This also avoids having to place a filter in the engine compartment which creates the potential of a fuel leak in or near a hot engine, header, etc. etc.
I believe the fuel line provides a ground for the fuel sender, not the fuel gauge.
Because the filter basket in an SU pump is both coarse and of small capacity I believe it makes more sense to place a finer filter before it and effectively remove the SU's filter from the equation. This also avoids having to place a filter in the engine compartment which creates the potential of a fuel leak in or near a hot engine, header, etc. etc.
RAC68
Darth Vader
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Michael,
I appreciate your points and have not personally found it necessary to add a fuel filter at any point in the delivery line (between tank and pump or before the carburetors) and in 54 years have not experienced a dirt issue. Yes, I have found some sediment in the carb boles at times but so small an amount it was never cause of any problems that I am aware of.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
I appreciate your points and have not personally found it necessary to add a fuel filter at any point in the delivery line (between tank and pump or before the carburetors) and in 54 years have not experienced a dirt issue. Yes, I have found some sediment in the carb boles at times but so small an amount it was never cause of any problems that I am aware of.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Randy Forbes
Yoda
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The Facet pump I referenced a few posts back also includes a built in filter, rated at 74 microns (there IS a 400 micron filter available, but their most commonly used pumps have the 74). The last time I inspected mine__let's just say not in recent memory__it was spotless; I mean I couldn't even find a spec in it (and my eyesight was, at least back then, better than my memory...).
I have a fabricated aluminum tank (28.8 gl) but the car had sat in Tsikuris' shop over a year, so I drained & flushed it, along with cleaning the varnish out of the carbs. Since that was around 2004, that's probably the last time I took the end-cap off the pump to check the filter. If I'd ever remember to include a new gasket or two with an order, I might (?) check its condition more often.
Webers have a small__thimble-sized__filter between the fuel inlet and each needle valve, but I still felt compelled to put a see-thru one after the FPR and before the 1st carb.
I have a fabricated aluminum tank (28.8 gl) but the car had sat in Tsikuris' shop over a year, so I drained & flushed it, along with cleaning the varnish out of the carbs. Since that was around 2004, that's probably the last time I took the end-cap off the pump to check the filter. If I'd ever remember to include a new gasket or two with an order, I might (?) check its condition more often.
Webers have a small__thimble-sized__filter between the fuel inlet and each needle valve, but I still felt compelled to put a see-thru one after the FPR and before the 1st carb.
RAC68
Darth Vader
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Michael,
As I understand, the ground side of the gauge's electromagnets, which control the position of the needle, run to the variable coil in the sending unit which terminates at a solid ground at the pump after passing through the metal fuel line. Without the grounded sender, the gauge needle would not have positioning to reflect fuel level.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
As I understand, the ground side of the gauge's electromagnets, which control the position of the needle, run to the variable coil in the sending unit which terminates at a solid ground at the pump after passing through the metal fuel line. Without the grounded sender, the gauge needle would not have positioning to reflect fuel level.
Ray(64BJ8P1)
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Randy--
I was surprised to see a "74 micron" rating but apparently that is acceptable. Goi to Pegasus Racing's page at:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00100
where they attach the description of "silt" to that size debris. On my diesel boat (And I guess gas fuel injection systems as well) I used RACOR 10 micron filters but of course an injector's orifice is a lot smaller than anything in our carbs.
Sorry I did not get to see you at Sebring but I had a screwed up weekend: I had MSD ignition issues all of Friday and Saturday and when I finally got out Sunday I blew a head gasket.
So it goes....
I was surprised to see a "74 micron" rating but apparently that is acceptable. Goi to Pegasus Racing's page at:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00100
where they attach the description of "silt" to that size debris. On my diesel boat (And I guess gas fuel injection systems as well) I used RACOR 10 micron filters but of course an injector's orifice is a lot smaller than anything in our carbs.
Sorry I did not get to see you at Sebring but I had a screwed up weekend: I had MSD ignition issues all of Friday and Saturday and when I finally got out Sunday I blew a head gasket.
So it goes....
To the OP, i see you are in California. Jerry Felper of the local so. cal. MG club use to rebuild the SU pumps as a side business. He did my Square body LCS pump (actually a german made Hardi clone) about ten years ago and is still working fine.
felperg@earthlink.net or 714-630-1074
felperg@earthlink.net or 714-630-1074
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Randy - what is the electric fitting in the center of the side of the pump?
I see none of the Facet cylindrical pumps listed by Pegasus shows that in its photo.
Randy Forbes
Yoda
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Electrical connector. It's probably a late 80s/early 90s version (?). I have it in my mind that it's a bayonet-type connection (like a tail light bulb) but I've been wrong before (haven't touched it in quite a while...).
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Ray--
You said: "The first is that the fuel line extending from the tank to the pump provided the ground for the fuel gauge"
The fuel line provides a ground for the fuel SENDER and if one installs a filter in the fuel line using rubber pieces as I have done--thus breaking continuity--it is simple to provide a new ground for the sender via one of the screws that attaches it to the tank flange.
You said: "The first is that the fuel line extending from the tank to the pump provided the ground for the fuel gauge"
The fuel line provides a ground for the fuel SENDER and if one installs a filter in the fuel line using rubber pieces as I have done--thus breaking continuity--it is simple to provide a new ground for the sender via one of the screws that attaches it to the tank flange.