Front brake job - any advice?

[bigjones]

OK, many thanks KG.
I'll head to Advance this morning - see what they got in terms of connectors, tubing and bender. Then bench bleed.
No surrender!

 

[John Kuzman]

When I bench bleed a master cylinder, I just screw a regular bleeder screw into the port and run a piece of tubing back to the reservoir. When done bench bleeding, just tighten the bleed screw and install the MC. Then just undo the bleed screw and screw in the brake line.

 

[bigjones]

Wow! Great tip John. By a miracle, I had ordered up new bleeder screws for the front discs, and they actually fit the MC. Saves me a trip to Advance.

 

[bigjones]

OK, removed MC. Bench bled. Worked well, though didn't see too many bubbles.
Re-installed, bled all wheels with Ezi-bleed. Still a soft pedal. Repeat the bleed. Still soft.
This is lunacy.
One bottle of brake fluid left - tonight me and the long-suffering wife will do the 2-man bleed.
Somehow, I think I'm hosed.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

OK ... I didn't reread this whole thread, but did you replace all three hoses?

 

[bigjones]

Trev,
Thanks for the reply.
Didn't replace the back one. Figured I'd keep it simple, and save that for later. Wedging the brake pedal locks all four brakes hard and that back brake hose isn't leaking at all (can't see any leaking anywhere, in fact)

 

[Trevor Jessie]

I just removed a rear hose that wasn't leaking, but when I took it off I could tell that it had failed internally and was ballooning. It is worth checking out.

 

[bigjones]

Fair dinkum, Trev. I'll replace it this morning.
I've just ordered up more Castrol Dot 4 (a 12 pack from Amazon for $37, 2 day shipping if you are on Prime)
Cheers

 

[Guest]

Do you have the rear brakes adjusted correctly? Pull the e brake till it just touches and then back down one click and try them then. If that solves your problem the rear isn't adjusted right.

 

[bigjones]

I think you may have something there, KG!

Both drums need serious adjusting. I must have turned the adjuster on the driver's side a full revolution before there was any scraping. On the passenger side, the adjuster is seized up - it's soaking in PB Blaster right now. Can't understand why they are so much out of adjustment - it's only been 3,4,5 years since I last messed with them, and I don't drive the car any great distance.

(Yeah, and both sides are now dripping diff oil. Gott in Himmel! I'll start another thread on that later)

Onward and upward.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

So fix the Dif oil leak or your shoes will immediately get soaked. A new gasket on each side along with just the correct amount of Hylomar Sealer fixed things for Bugsy I and resolved issues I had and lasted for the next 11 years until I sold Bugsy I this Spring. Just not too much sealer back there.

 

[bigjones]

Good enough, Jim. I need to put in an order for the gaskets, etc.

OK, tightened up the play in the drums and installed new hose for the back brakes. Re-bled. Pedal still too soft. Or maybe I'm going crazy. Here's a short video, for your viewing pleasure.

https://tinyurl.com/p9ll8gk

...
Both drums need serious adjusting. I must have turned the adjuster on the driver's side a full revolution before there was any scraping....

BTW, were you guys too polite to point out that was a dumb-ass statement? I forgot it was a cam action.

 

[Gerard]

Re-bled. Pedal still too soft. Or maybe I'm going crazy. Here's a short video, for your viewing pleasure.

https://tinyurl.com/p9ll8gk

It's hard to tell in the video... are you able to build any pressure when pumping the pedal? If so, it looks like it goes away if you hold the pedal down. If that's the case, your seal is bypassing fluid, meaning the seal is bad. If the pedal is consistently soft, then you still have air trapped somewhere. Work the rear ones first, the the fronts. Work from longest distance to shortest.

 

[bigjones]

Thanks for the info, Gerard.
Sorry for the poor video. Pumping the brake pedal doesn't build up any pressure.
I'll ask the wife again and try the 2 man bleed this weekend.
Not too hopeful because the Ezi-Bleed, though messy, has always done it for me in the past.
(The last bleed was using the Ezi-Bleed, working from the back to the front brakes)
Cheers

PS Let's check to see if we're doing this 2 man bleed right.
Here's our routine:
I say PUSH
The wife says PUSHING, as she slowly pushes down on the brake pedal.
I open the bleeder. (Fluid comes out the clear hose from the bleeder into a jar)
Wife says BOTTOM when the pedal goes as far as it can.
I close the bleeder.
I say RELEASE.
The wife says RELEASING, as she slowly lets the brake pedal come back.
Wife says TOP when the pedal is back at the top.

Then repeat several times after no bubbles are seen.
Then go to next back wheel, and then the fronts.
(Keeping an eye on the MC fluid level, of course)

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Guys do we need any discussion of air leaks around bleeder screws when they get cracked open, leaking
around threads. From the problems he is having I think he!s got a bigger problem but may be worth mentioning.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

If he is just doing conventional bleeding, then no worries about the threads. Only when using a vacuum bleeder.

I use a pressure bleeder. (along with pumping the pedal). I just finished the brakes on the free Midget and it took quite a bit of flushing before I got all the black gunk out of the lines.

 

[Gerard]

Thanks for the info, Gerard.

I open the bleeder. (Fluid comes out the clear hose from the bleeder into a jar)
Wife says BOTTOM when the pedal goes as far as it can.
I close the bleeder.

(Keeping an eye on the MC fluid level, of course)

That technique is necessary for the clutch circuit, but not the brakes. No harm on doing it that way, and if you are concerned about air getting in through the bleeder threads, is OK to do, but you have residual valve in the brake circuit, while the clutch does not.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

On some cars (despite having residual valves in the brake circuit) it is necessary to close the bleeder before lifting the pedal. It depends on how the lines run and if an air pocket in the line can allow fluid to siphon back. To make shortest work of it, I always close the bleeders before lifting the pedal. To make even quicker work of it ... I use a pressure bleeder.

 

[bigjones]

...you have residual valve in the brake circuit, while the clutch does not....

Wow. Never knew that. Whereabouts is it located? Now I'm tempted to go and try a one-man bleed but I've just the one bottle of brake fluid left and I'm saving that for tomorrow for a two man bleed with the wife. Amazon says the 12 pack will arrive tomorrow but...if it doesn't I'll be in a pickle (the wife will be away for a week, come Monday. Also, Advance has stopped selling Castrol brake fluid, so it's not like I can run down there for some more)

Trev,
Would you might sharing info on that pressure bleeder. I've tried all sorts of methods in the past - all useless, except the Ezi-Bleed. I would even buy a professional bleeder if I knew it would work, without much finagling. I've read the fluids should be changed every two years so it would "be an investment", like I tells the wife when I buy tools.

Cheers

 

[Trevor Jessie]

You still need someone to press the pedal while you open the bleeder. I think Gerard was saying that they can let up on the pedal before you close it.

When I said pressure bleeder I was referring to the ez-bleeder. But there are all sorts of DIY plans for pressure bleeders. You would need a spare cap for the MC or another creative way of making a good seal.

On the midget, if all the components are in good working order, then it takes two people about ten minutes to bleed the brakes. Clutch system can be more problematic.