Crypt Clutch 2nd Look-see

[Alan_Myers]

Interesting!

I believe TRF is currently offering a choice in their Magic Clutch kits... either a Gunst TO bearing or a Koyo (is that the "Toyota"?). The Koyo-based kit is a bit cheaper.

I wasn't aware that the Gunst used that wider slot (d'oh... it's so obvious in the photo, but I didn't catch it) This certainly *might* explain Dale's clutch problems, *if* the fork pins weren't adapted to match it!

It's just me, but I'm a little leery of any TO bearing designed to run all the time in light contact with the pressure plate tangs like the Gunst does. I've heard others praise it, though, along with a few cursing it. I can't really say how well it works... or doesn't... simply haven't tried it. Instead I will probably be converting to a Tilton annular hydraulic release combined with a TR4A/250/6-type Tilton clutch. (By the way, HVDA offers a hydraulic release conversion kit, too, spoecifically for the TR gearbox. I dunno if it is a Tilton unit, though.)

If the Gunst were installed in your car Dale, there should be an extra bracket and pre-load spring installed inside the bellhousing, too. If not, even more reason for the TO to fail, jamming and causing the slave cyl. to fail or over-stressing the dreaded taper pin like it seemed to do! If, on the other hand, those parts *are* installed, they need to be removed and *not* used with the other type of TO bearing you appear to be using now (which looks like the Koyo in your photo). There is a photo showing the Gunst with it's Gunst-only bracket and special spring (and the two little square adapters for the fork pins) at https://www.zeni.net/trf/specials06/13.php?s_wt=1024&s_ht=768

Boy, I can see why a would-be repairer who's not all that familiar with TRs might get really confused if they pull a gearbox for a simple clutch repair and find the Gunst setup in there, as opposed to what the service manual and spares catlogs are showing them!

 

[Tinster]

Alan,

Thanks as always,

No, there were no other pieces inside. But looking at
the photo, I have to agree I removed a Gunst TO.
The fork I removed by torch had a broken taper pin
and normal looking "teeth?" that slid into the TO.
The fork shaft I think I have identified as TR4A.

I am beginning to understand why my clutch was so
"sticky" and lurched off the line in 1st gear.

So I removed a botched clutch replacement.

I will get thru this with everyone's kind help.

d

 

[TRopic6]

Holy Hapa, Tinster!

I just looked at my TRF Gunst kit and what came off your car is no Gunst. The Gunst bearing is narrower and flat on the side, and the Gunst brass carrier fork pin slot is wide (19/32"), but not as wide as yours looks to be. See how flush it sits on the carrier in Paul's picture. (I don't know how to post pictures...yet) Your old one looks like the an old RHR or Green bearing stuck on a non-Triumph carrier.

The fork pin contact point on your old bearing carrier looks like it would be well forward and lower than where it should be. That could have made the bearing carrier tilt and hang up on the gearbox snout, causing jerky engagement. Look it over for wear, maybe more on the top middle and bottom front.

The upside is you've found a major DPO fault in one of the TR6's most sensitive systems...and you've got the right parts to repair it. You're almost there - stay on target.

PS - I didn't think I would be able to find TR6 parts on Oahu, but I was wrong. Call the junk yards and ask if they have any old British cars, or know who might. Check around the current/former military bases there (Rosy Roads, Ft Buchanan, etc). Military officers drove lots of LBCs back in the day. I'll bet you a Mai Tai there's TR6 parts cars in your area.

Jeff

 

[Tinster]

Jeff-

You might be onto something.

I am convinced with no doubts that a serviceman
brought the TR to Puerto Rico. I have done some
design work for the Navy at Rosy Roads and Sabana
Seca and the coast Guard. Their guys always ship
their personal cars here.

thanks, d

Gotta take a shower and scoot over to Humacao for
8:00 AM meeting.

 

[Brosky]

Keep in mind, there are two companies making bogus Gunst bearings and the DPO may have bought one of them. That may explain the difference in the size of the slot.

And if he did the clutch like everything else, I don't imagine that he would have taken the time to install the bracket and extra spring to hold tension against the PP.

I'm sure that you've seen my rant and pictures about the perils associated with installing a Gunst (3) times in a TR6, but if you haven't just go to the Clutch section of my website.

I should have mailed Dale a few of the blocks to see if they fit in the groove, but he can always measure it for comparison.

I'm keeping them as a constant reminder that more expensive is not always more better.

 

[Tinster]

Paul,

During my Google research why the clutch was "sticky"
feeling, I found many negative articles concerning
the Gunst bearing. Your was the primary reason I
avoided anything to do with Gunst.

Small world,

We crossed paths before we met.

d

 

[Tinster]

I have TRF complete Wilton wool carpet replacment set
that arrived with TRF Magic clutch back in December
when I thought it might involve a weekend to change
out Crypty's clutch.

Two months later it looks like it might be another
two months or so to complete the clutch task.

The box of $$ pricey wool carpet is open.
Any ideas how I can keep moths or humidity from
destroying it ? I'm getting very worried I will
lose the carpet.

thanks

D

 

[Guest]

The box of $$ pricey wool carpet is open.
Any ideas how I can keep moths or humidity from
destroying it ? I'm getting very worried I will
lose the carpet.

Keep it under your bed. Same place I keep my new clutch.

 

[TRopic6]

Dale,

I get lots of humidity problems (not to mention the salt), so I use ziplock bags for everything. Hawaii has lots of bugs, so all the Christmas & Halloween stuff goes in 55 gallon trashcan liners (from Home Depot) and then in a ducttape-sealed plastic storage bin.

I'd get the biggest ziplock bag (made for storing wardrobe-size clothes), put some mothballs (well, maybe cedar strips so it won't smell), burp the air out and seal. Make sure the carpet goes in as dry as possible so mold won't grow - maybe blow it with a hairdryer.

PS - Yesterday my son and I wen' holoholo in the 6, looping around the southwestern side of the island. No problems in 103 miles, but the clutch is definately getting easier to slip, so gotta get that spare trans back together and replace the clutch. Take lots of pictures so I can refer to them!

Jeff

 

[Brosky]

Jeff,

Here is my clutch tutorial.

https://www.74tr6.com/clutchreplacement.htm

Good luck & welcome to the forum!

 

[Guest]

Paul, your site won't load, at least on my laptop...

 

[Tinster]

Jeff,

Thanks for the tips.
Wendy would scalp me if I ruin the wool carpet
and have to purchase a second set.

Or Crypty could get towed to "The Crusher."
That danger is always lurking.

d

 

[Tinster]

Bill-

Fabulous idea under the bed, that one!!

Our white cat and our grey cat
sleep under the bed during the day
and would love the feel of the coal
black wool carpet for their snoozes.

It would make for an interesting installed
color combination. Black/white/grey

d

 

[TRopic6]

Mahalo Paul - You have a great site with excellent photos. My daily driver sat in a garage for 10 years and I have not had to touch the clutch, save rebuild the master & slave cyls. That grace period is rapidly coming to an end as it slips readily if I try any quick acceleration in 4th gear.

Tinster - I bought some nylon carpet, cut my own set and had it edge-bound locally. Like any good misadventure, it seemed like a good idea at the time. I ended up spending $130 and it's starting to shrink and look "cheap." I've seen other 6s with the wool set and they look great. I'm buying my next carper set.

Jeff
74 TR6 CF13816U

PS - I'm taping the game so I can watch it with my sons tonight. The Forun keeps my mind off it.

 

[Brosky]

Thanks for the heads up, Bill. Must be internet traffic or maybe aliens are at it again.

It seems to be fine now on all three browsers here.

 

[Brosky]

Jeff, good luck with the clutch, when you get to it. I hope that when it's time, you'll have everything ready that you can possibly need, as I'm sure that you may have the same issues as Dale, with parts availability on the islands.

 

[DNK]

Dale, re your wool carpet predicament. Get one of the (or 2) storage bags that you vacuum out the air. Should have those at a linens place. Should make the misses happy.

 

[Tinster]

The Crypt Car has only about 40 miles driven
since I changed the oil. But that was 11 months
ago.

Since Crypty is non-operational, would it do any
good to remove the oil filter, make a great mess,
just to pour new oil into the engine top end?

I read oil changes every 3 months are needed for
seldom driven TRs. And the Crypt Car is certainly
seldom driven!!

thanks,

d

 

[TR4nut]

Dale-

Regarding an oil change: In my opinion, nope. I'd be more worried in a colder climate where the engine was started up for a few minutes at a time - water might build up in the crankcase but even then I don't think I'd worry about an 11 month changeout.

Get that tranny fixed - you need to start enjoying that TR6 of yours more.

Randy

 

[Tinster]

Thanks Randy,

Our visitors will have left by Saturday
and I hope to resume the:
tranny/clutch/rear brakes, floorboards,
new carpet restoration process.

I am shooting to have Crypty operational and
on the beach highway by June or so.

But Crypty is a real fighter so I expect a
few right hooks to my jaw during the process.

D