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California Emissions + 1980 MKIV 1500

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@ Bigjones

I haven't put anything into it yet. I wouldn't do something without knowing exactly what I was doing first, I was just trying to find out.

@ All 3 of you, it looks like I use DOT 3 brake fluid from what I found out. There appears to be 2 reservoirs, one is clear and one... I'm not sure if the other is meant to be filled up? The clear one you can open the cap and see plenty of fluid up to the top in it, the other one has like a steel cap on it that doesn't appear it should come off and is a small cylinder looking thing. It's closer to the edge of the car than the clear reservoir. Does anything go in that one or just the 2nd (clear) one? Thanks folks.
 
Alright, back on to emissions...

I'm trying to gauge if I go through with all this, with the parts Scott will be supplying me and with the ones I have now just which steps to take.

I've been "told" by a few sources that I might can pass the sniffer test if I leave the Weber on, the current Exhaust and Intake manifolds on and pretty much make sure everything else is in place and working right, including the cat converter. I was thinking of getting it to -that- stage and trying to get it tested, maybe using any trick I can to get the car running clean and smooth for the test and having it tested at a more "backwoods" shop. I'm not talking about the visual inspection right now, just the sniffer test.

What do you guys think about that?

Also, I've been told if I put on the original carburetor that it will probably need a rebuild, how much is the kit and how hard is it to do? I was also told that it would be something I probably couldn't even tune myself, so how much would it cost to get it tuned? Or could I tune it myself? I was told special tools were needed.

Thank you for any further help everyone.
 
Andrew Mace said:
Clear: dual brake master cylinder. "Steel" top: clutch master cylinder (and yes, the cap does unscrew for topping off).

As noted previously, you really need to get yourself at least an Owners Manual and, eventually, a Workshop Manual!
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, if I keep the car I will most definitely get the Haynes manual and the owners handbook. I've got the page up on Amazon.com. Just wanted to make sure that I was going to keep the car first.

That little steel cap really doesn't want to come off either :cryin:

If I get it off, I should just check to make sure I can see fluid in there, if not, top it off, yeah?
 
Gafirema said:
That little steel cap really doesn't want to come off either :cryin:
Click to expand...
Wrap it with a rag and then use some big old "Channel-Loc" (side-locking) pliers or similar. It should then come off with little to no damage. They do stick sometimes!

Gafirema said:
If I get it off, I should just check to make sure I can see fluid in there, if not, top it off, yeah?
Click to expand...
Right. By "topping off," you only need the fluid up to about 1/4" from the rim. And you'll want to figure out which fluid is in there. If it's clear to amber in color, it's probably DOT 3 or DOT 4. (Silicone fluid usually has a purplish tint as I recall.)
 
Gafirema said:
I've been "told" by a few sources that I might can pass the sniffer test if I leave the Weber on, the current Exhaust and Intake manifolds on and pretty much make sure everything else is in place and working right, including the cat converter.
Click to expand...
And the EGR valve, but your Weber manifold almost certainly does not have the fitting for that. Plus the Weber manifold may or may not fit with the stock exhaust manifold (which you will have to have for the catalyst to bolt to).

You might get lucky and get a shop that doesn't notice the 2bbl carb when the book calls for a 1bbl; but they are risking a fine and losing their license if you get caught.

And I think I can just about promise you that the main jets in the Weber (which are not adjustable) will be too rich to pass the tailpipe test. There is a limit to how much CO the cat can burn, and "best power" is quite a bit more than "minimum emissions".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]I'm not talking about the visual inspection right now, just the sniffer test. [/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, they are part and parcel of the same test. And you have to pass both of them to get it registered. I can't see any advantage to passing the sniffer test, if you are going to have to change components to pass the visual.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Also, I've been told if I put on the original carburetor that it will probably need a rebuild, how much is the kit and how hard is it to do?
[/QUOTE]The basic kit is currently on sale @ TRF for $30. There is a good series of articles at
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/technical.htm
They are written for a TR6 (which uses a pair of carbs slightly larger than yours), but the procedures are very similar and things like float height will be in your book.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] I was also told that it would be something I probably couldn't even tune myself, so how much would it cost to get it tuned? Or could I tune it myself? I was told special tools were needed.[/QUOTE]
Only one special tool, and it's only about $12. You can do everything but the mixture adjustment without special tools, and IMO you can probably guess well enough at the mixture. Basically take it all the way lean, then back just rich enough that it will run smoothly, probably close enough. If not, the smog shop should be willing to tweak it a bit (if you supply the tool and show them how) while doing the pre-test.
 
Okay guys, so... If I put on all the original parts, the exhaust, intake manifolds, the original carb, tweak it out, the smog/air/vac pump, the EGR stuff, all that, tune it out properly, will my car still run?

I don't want to "Fix something that isn't broke" and it never run right again. But baring in mind that it does, with all that original stuff on and putting on a new head gasket and clutch slave cylinder, should I pass the smog test without trouble at that point?

Also, how much will my car's performance drop? Getting rid of this weber makes me want to cry. I've known of weber's before I had a triumph, how the old hot rod guys would use them and swear by them. Replacing that, the manifolds, all this, I'm just wondering how much my performance will drop.

Thanks again everyone. One way or another, however this turns out in the end I will never forget all the kind help I've gotten here!

PS: Could anyone show me (link me) the exact tool(s) I would need to tune the carburetor? Can they be bought locally is it more specialized? Thank you kindly.
 
Gafirema said:
Alright, back on to emissions...



I've been "told" by a few sources that I might can pass the sniffer test if I leave the Weber on, the current Exhaust and Intake manifolds on and pretty much make sure everything else is in place and working right, including the cat converter.
Click to expand...

I cannot see the point in doing that since the Weber <span style="font-weight: bold">cannot</span> be left on for the actual test and many of your emissions lines will be off still or wrong.

You cannot 1/2 do this, trying to is only going to waste time and money.

Not to be a hard ass, but if you don't plan to do it right please don't take Scott's equipment. This stuff is rare and in my opinion should only be taken if you are doing to do it right.

The carbs are very simple and can easily be done at home. There are several how-to guides and several of us have posted tutorials here.

I can help on the carb if you are not confident or choose not to send it out to a shop or service.

This isn't completely exact for your carb, but it 95% is right on and will give you a sense of what doing this at home will take;

https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Carbs/CarbsI/CarbsI.htm
 
Gafirema said:
PS: Could anyone show me (link me) the exact tool(s) I would need to tune the carburetor? Can they be bought locally is it more specialized? Thank you kindly.
Click to expand...


$12 at the Roadster factory, it is the one on the bottom right.

p6-27020.jpg
 
Of course it will still run. Just don't expect to bolt everything on and have exhaust nirvana. The whole thing works as a system and will almost certainly require some tuning/fiddling to pass smog. It's normal for a non-fuel injected engine devoid of sensors and computer controlled closed loop feedback gadgetry.

The ZS isn't a bad little carb; but you've only got one of them and the intake charge needs to make two 90deg turns before it finds the intake port - not the best design. Expect to lose a few bhp by converting back to stock. If you want blistering performance, this isn't the vehicle for you.

As far as fixing what isn't broken - I don't see what choice you have if you want to register the car in your state. Some would argue that it's already broken in CA. :smile:

The carb rebuild kit and the L shaped tuning tool are best sourced from a British Parts specialist. There are dozens. SpitBits, The Roadster Factory, British Parts Northwest, Victoria British. They all have websites and they will all stock what you need... well, perhaps not TRF, but dont get me started on backorders.

What makes you think you need a new head gasket?
 
There is a dealer in Vista CA that sells a ton of stuff on Ebay. You amy want to check them out. They may ahve all the stuff you need. Be careful, because their prices are high.

Did the PO ever deliver the parts he had?

You may want to investigate returning the car to him for a refund.
 
This thread deserves an award for length and quickness to it.
 
UK 1962 specification: The in-line four produced 63 bhp at 5750rpm, and 67 ft·lb of torque at 3500rpm. This gave a top speed of 92 mph, and would achieve 0 to 60 mph in 17.3 seconds. Average fuel consumption was 31mpg.

1965 increasing the power to 67 bhp at 6000 rpm.

1967- In SU twin-carburettor form, the engine put out a claimed 75 bhp, and 75 ft·lb of torque at 4000rpm. The Mark III was the fastest Spitfire yet, achieving 60 mph in 14.5 seconds, and reaching a top speed of 95 mph.

In 1973, peak power was reduced to 63 bhp at 6000 rpm, and the peak torque was now 69 ft·lb at 3500 rpm. With the overall weight also increasing to 1,717 lb the performance dropped as a consequence, 0 to 60 mph now being achieved in 16.2 seconds and the top speed reducing to 90 mph.

1500's the American market model was fitted with a single Zenith-Stromberg Carburettor and a compression ratio reduced to 7.5:1 to allow it to run on lower octane unleaded fuel, and after adding a catalytic converter and exhaust gas recirculating system, the engine only delivered 53 bhp with a fast 0–60 time of 14.3 seconds


I would imagine with the aftermarket tweaks and less all the emissions stuff, you'll lose 20HP or about 1/4 to 1/3 the available power, but that's just a guess based on the figures given above.
 
My opinion, you're not going to lose that much, compared to what you have now. Much if not most of the US version power drop was due to the lower compression and mild cam, which presumably you still have (or are not going to lose). The EGR should be closed at WOT, so it does not affect max power at all. That leaves only the increased restriction of the 1bbl carb, manifolds and exhaust.

And probably, you could still pass the sniffer test if you tore the engine down and discovered that you have to shave .030" off the head and bore the cylinders .040" over; both of which I believe are more-or-less allowed by law. Changing the cam would not be allowed (but probably would still pass).
 
Thanks for the responses everyone.

As of right now, I'm trying to decide what would be the best course of action for me to take. Do I want to try to keep the car and get it California emissions legal, or do I want to try to sell it out of state and use the money for something else. I think my car in it's condition could bring an easy $4,000 so I'm trying to decide what my best course of action to take is.

That being said, I've decided I'm probably going to try to keep it and get it into smog condition.

I'm not trying to half ass anything either, just so it's known. I was trying to see if it would be possible just to keep the weber carburetor on but it looks like that's not going to be an option. If it isn't that's fine, I'll do the job completely and thoroughly.

I'm not worried about winning any races, but I live in a big city with fast traffic here in Southern California. I just want to know that when I pull out into traffic I have enough power to safely get up to speed, that was my only concern.

I appreciate everyone's help, especially Scott_Hower. With his help I should be able to get this thing emissions legal.

PS, Which Rebuild Kit will I need for the California Legal carburetor? I've heard that You need the California needle, is that included with them? Can anyone point me in the direction of the -exact- rebuild kit I need and the pricing for such? Does anyone know how much Joe Curto charges for it or if I can just get it off spitbits? Again, it needs to be the one that has the California needle, or do I need to get that separately?
 
If previously provided data is true, there WERE no 1980 California spec Spits.
Therefore, all you can do is FED.
Needles and all.
 
TOC said:
If previously provided data is true, there WERE no 1980 California spec Spits.
Therefore, all you can do is FED.
Needles and all.
Click to expand...

Very well.

Spitbits lists these three rebuild kits for the carburetor, which one do I need?

CARBURETOR REBUILD KIT (repro) ZE14/K $28.58
CARBURETOR REBUILD KIT OE (manual choke) CDSK7 $40.00
CARBURETOR REBUILD KIT OE (auto choke) CDSK8 $45.00

And do they come with that needle thing that is needed? Also, does the Hanyes manual have the information I need for doing the rebuild or does the kit include it?

Thank you much.
 
Well, easy.
First one appears to be generic...hence the "repro(duction)" tag.
Your carb manual or automatic choke?

If the car is Federal Emissions (and the original tag should tell you), you bring it up to Federal standards.

Like the Cat SpitBits lists....if the 1980 Spit was not California compliant, you need a Federal cat.

I don't know how invasive CARB is, but I cannot imagine the ones who mandate you can't change ANYTHING would mandate you change the components to meet a California standard that never was applied to the vehicle.
 
CDSK8
This kit is for Cars with CD4 & CD4T Carburetors.

CDSK7 is a genuine Zenith kit

ZE14/K from the looks of the bits is more "generic", with multiple-choice parts
 
Yes, it is a Federal Car. So, that being said... Which one? It looks like CDSK8, the one for $28.58 would work, right? Although, if you guys have a better suggestion I'm all for it :p
 
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