Brake Issue

[steveg]

I'd like to see some real data--not just anecdotal or manufacturers' claims--as to the relative stopping power, fade resistance, etc. of semi-metallic, EBC, and other brands/types (compositions). Anybody have applets-to-apples data?

Sounds impossible. They'd have to add such variables as cold/warm/hot stopping, noise, dust, wet/dry, pedal pressure (un-boosted Healeys vs boosted BJ8s), wear mileage.
There's a lot of info out there comparing various types of lining. Google "brake lining material comparison".

Maybe one of the BJ8 owners will buy both the ceramic pads and EBC Green Stuffs and try them both out. Tell us if the Green Stuff is enough better to warrant $110 price vs $44.

Other Healeys need not apply as Green Stuff pads don't seem to be available for the earlier brakes.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

If they were installed TTY, maybe measuring the length of the bolt would tell? Anyway, was just a guess.

 

[gonzo]

Unfortunately, I have offered qualitative information available from seat of pants driving experience. I also wanted to try a pad with different friction material that could both improve brake feel and lighten my wallet at the same time.

 

[RestoreThemAll]

Does anyone use brake pad glue between the pad and the cylinder? That can help with pad rattle.

 

[Keoke]

Does anyone use brake pad glue between the pad and the cylinder? That can help with pad rattle.

Not to my knowledge, anti squeal strips or equivalent products should take care of that

 

[Rob Glasgow]

As I mentioned in my opening post, I cannot get the front wheels to lock up even when pushing on the pedal as hard as I can. Someone said their fronts will lock up. I have two questions. 1. If my brakes were working correctly, should I expect my non-boosted brake to lock up under sever application? 2. Does anyone have an old road test that shows what the braking distance (at a given speed) should be on a 1960 Healey?

 

[steveg]

From Autocar Aug 28, 1959

The Motor - same time frame:

 

[red57]

Rob, As I said in my earlier post - you should definitely be able to lock up the front brakes. Booster or non-booster the fronts should lock with sufficient pedal force, and definitely before the rears lock.

As far as I know all manufacturers designed their brakes to be biased towards the front - in the neighborhood of 60/40 front/rear braking bias. This is largely because of the weight transfer when braking which allows the fronts to do more stopping work because of the increased traction. This also means that if you stomp on the pedal (in the rain for example) and lock the brakes, if the fronts lock first you will slide straight because the rears are not locked and still braking much better than the fronts that are sliding. If it was reversed and the rears locked first, the fronts are doing more than the rears for stopping and therefore the rear will try to pass you. This is bad enough if you are braking in a dead straight line on dry pavement, but much worse if you are in a curve or turning any amount or on wet pavement - you will spin. More modern cars have abs which helps prevent lock-up but there is still a front bias.

Old road tests wouldn't be very helpful because modern tire and brake technology is vastly different than 'back in the day'.

Dave

 

[John Turney]

Did you change the bore of the master cylinder when you replaced it? A larger bore will shorten the pedal stroke, but increase the pedal effort to get the same braking effect.

 

[steveg]

EBC - Green Stuff Made in U.K. Organic material. Good initial bite better stopping power. Some dust. Summit Racing has them. I like them. GONZO

Gonzo - Could you post the Part # for the green stuff pads that fit your car? I can't find a listing for the Type 14 pads.

 

[Randy Forbes]

As I mentioned in my opening post, I cannot get the front wheels to lock up even when pushing on the pedal as hard as I can. Someone said their fronts will lock up. I have two questions. 1. If my brakes were working correctly, should I expect my non-boosted brake to lock up under sever application? 2. Does anyone have an old road test that shows what the braking distance (at a given speed) should be on a 1960 Healey?

Given the monumental advancement in tire/rubber technology, even for bias-plys, this comparison would be pretty useless.

 

[Bob McElwee]

If he can't duplicate the results shown in the charts, wouldn't it at least indicate he has a problem somewhere?

 

[Keoke]

If he can't duplicate the results shown in the charts, wouldn't it at least indicate he has a problem somewhere?

No it tends to indicate the author failed Physic 101

 

[Rob Glasgow]

I would assume modern radial tires would perform better than old bias ply in the brake tests, so if I don't come close to the old test results, then I would also assume my brake system is certainly not performing as it should.
John, I have the 5/8" bore master cylinder.
I think my next move is to overhaul the calipers since I replaced everything else.

 

[bob hughes]

Getting back to the root of the issue - clacking noise on turning - reduces / goes away on heavy braking. Just check the run out on the rotor, how it can warp I do not know but when I first acquired my old girl I had severe clacking noise from both front wheels and it disappeared on braking. Measuring the rotors there was a 3mm run out on each. Also check for broken or loose spokes.



Bob

 

[gonzo]

Gonzo - Could you post the Part # for the green stuff pads that fit your car? I can't find a listing for the Type 14 pads.

For those interested in the EBC pad, Summit Racing has them available. Part No. is: EBC-DP2141 for AH 3000 MK II BJ7 application. The kit includes Brake Pad Grease and anti-squeal / vibration stick-on backing material which eliminates clacking noise.

Regardless of pad type / manufacturer, the unboosted brakes on my BJ-7 requires some effort to lock them up with some left wheel bias. Using DOT 5 brake fluid for many years. When adding DOT 5 to reservoir, do it SLOWLY like pouring beer in glass, to avoid introducing micro bubbles which are difficult to bleed-out and contribute to spongy brakes. GONZO

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ebc-dp2141

 

[bob hughes]

I have to say that I have not tried to lock my unboosted BJ7 brakes up, it gets through the MOT over this side of the pond without problems and I try to anticipate braking requirements. Perhaps one day I should try to create a slight flat spot on my tyres! probably just before I need to renew them. :highly_amused:



Bob

 

[Joe Schlosser]

Not a Big Healey but I do split the calipers when rebuilding Sprite and always replace the bolts with new grade 8.
Much easier to do the job with the two haves

 

[Bob_Spidell]

FWIW, I just saw in a flier that Moss has 'Green Stuff' pads for late BJ8s on sale @ $89.99.

NFI

 

[Rob Glasgow]

Well I've resolved one of my issues. The clicking noise when I made a right hand turn was due to two of the bolts that hold the backing plate cover around the rotors had backed out and were hitting the bolts that hold the rotors to the hub. See photos below.
I don't remember when I would have removed those backing plates but it had to be 15 or 20 years ago. The parts book says there is supposed to be at metal locking tab of prevent that from happening but I must have damaged that and replaced it with star washers that obviously are not as effective. Good news is it just a matter of tightening the bolts after I build a new locking tab. Moss shows them as NA. The bolts on the left hand side were still tight even without the locking tab.
While I had the hubs apart, I decided to disassemble the front calipers to see if there was an obvious reason why I could lock up the front brakes under a panic stop. Pulled the pistons and although there was a little residue in the cylinders, the bores and stainless steel pistons were not pitted or rough. I blew out all the passages and everything seems clear. I did not break the halves apart since I didn't think it would reveal any more than I could already see.
Is that a mistake? I will order the flat o-rings just in case someone convinces me there is a good reason to separate the havles of the calipers.
Give me your opinion.