Brake Caliper Upgrade

[BoyRacer]

I have to chime in here. Going to a larger (bigger bore) master cylinder will not reduce pedal pressure.... it will do the opposite ..... it will increase your pedal pressure. This may seem counter-intuitive to some but it is true.

As for the 1/2" BJ8 discs, they bolt up to all of the earlier 3000 hubs.

And, there is another caliper upgrade for BJ8s. The Jaguar XJ6 Series 1 from 1969-73 has 3-pot calipers that are a direct bolt on to the BJ8 stub axles and using the BJ8 1/2" rotors. They are quite rare but I do have an excellent pair for sale if anyone is interested.

 

[steveg]

Dave,

This is all coming from memory when I looked into it a couple of years ago. I believe the metric holes in the lugs of the M16 are a little larger than the Type 16 holes, so they might fit but with a little play in the bolt area. The amount of rubbing was pretty slight and it was on the top outside edge of the part of the caliper that houses the piston. It was enough that it would've destroyed the wires pretty quickly. Another thing I found was the supply of the M16s at the time had dried up in the US and although one side could be bought fully loaded for under $40, the other side was completely unavailable.

I used steel from supermarket cans to make shims between the 7/16" bolts and the 12mm holes in my Toyota calipers.
https://www.pbase.com/stevegerow/image/147372092

Moss sells the metric/7/16" shoulder bolt but mine were considerably less expensive (free) and work just as well.

The Aussies are all using the 4-pot Volvo girling calipers which also fit on the 3-1/2" centers.

 

[John Turney]

I found that the DW calipers are the same as TR6 calipers. I just used the TR6 rebuild kit from Moss on mine.

 

[steveg]

Anthony from Denis Welch replies:

"Our understanding is that our BJ8 caliper brackets will fit the original stub axles as well as our own, we believe you should be ok."

Price is $187 + shipping.
This will allow those with earlier cars to upgrade to the 3-1/2" centered multi-pot calipers such as Toyota, Volvo, Jaguar, etc.

 

[maxwedge5281]

if this be the case which of the calipers do you guys think best. i am in the process of replacing my current calipers and have already switched over to a dual master cylinder from wilwood. can one of the learned spell out what is required for the changeover using the dennis welch bj8 caliper mounts on an earlier 3000?

 

[steveg]

Parts needed;
Brackets, calipers with pads, hoses. Suggest new rotors.
Techna-fit makes the non-Goodridge hoses for Moss. Suggest constulting with them on your hose. Some will require metric fittings on the caliper end.

There are a separate set of issues modifying your old dust shields to fit. Dust shields are not really necessary if you want to skip that part.

 

[HealeyRick]

if this be the case which of the calipers do you guys think best. i am in the process of replacing my current calipers and have already switched over to a dual master cylinder from wilwood. can one of the learned spell out what is required for the changeover using the dennis welch bj8 caliper mounts on an earlier 3000?

I'd go with the Toyota calipers. Steve did a really nice job illustrating everything you need to know to do the swap: https://www.pbase.com/stevegerow/healey_discs&page=3

BTW, expect some sticker shock when you find out what shipping those caliper brackets from the UK is going to cost.

 

[steveg]

Advocating the Toyota 4Runner 4-piston calipers:

These can be found on Amazon by searching on the part numbers below.

I'm currently using these in a 4-wheel disc setup with a 3/4” Fiat dual master cylinder - they do not require a booster (though you'll probably want one with your Wilwood MC).


Calipers are available from Centric on Amazon, loaded with Posi-quiet ceramic pads for around $55 each. My posi-quiet pads do not squeal, ever.
This caliper creates no increase in pedal pressure, unlike the Type 16 Girling, which requires the 5/8” master cylinder.
They are as period-looking as the Girling 4-pot or 3-pot calipers.
They are more common than the Girlings.


PS – if you find you need to add a booster, I have a brand-new Moss Lockheed in the box for sale at a great price.


Centric Part numbers for Amazon searches for the two sides: 142.44011 and 142.44012

 

[steveg]

A word about the hoses:
The Toyota calipers have the hose connection such that it will hit on the corner of the square shock tower on earlier cars. On my site I have pictures of how I solved this using flared pipes.
However, if I did another car like this, I would want to develop a banjo bolt entry so I could order a custom hose and bolt it up.
See: https://www.pbase.com/stevegerow/image/159916297

 

[bdcvg]

Hi All,

Other then racing, what is wrong with the original calipers to motivate the exchange? I have always found the calipers with standard sintered metallic pads to be more than adequate. Am I missing something?

Ray (64BJ8P1)

I just got My car back and 1 of the changes was smaller bore master cylinder, remove the all or nothing booster and braided lines. The car stops fantastic with stock calipers etc. The non-power is so easy to modulate the braking force and the pedal firm.

 

[steveg]

I just got My car back and 1 of the changes was smaller bore master cylinder, remove the all or nothing booster and braided lines. The car stops fantastic with stock calipers etc. The non-power is so easy to modulate the braking force and the pedal firm.

It's all in what you want to do. By all means keep it stock.

If one is converting from all-drums, as I did, one might as well upgrade to more cost-effective, better brakes. The original calipers are $360.00 each in the Moss catalog.
My 4-wheel disc setup definitely stops better than the drums did. Same effort, faster stops.

 

[John Turney]

I'm with Steve. I upgraded from 4-wheel drums to 4-wheel discs and have never looked back.

 

[HealeyRick]

Hi All,

Other then racing, what is wrong with the original calipers to motivate the exchange? I have always found the calipers with standard sintered metallic pads to be more than adequate. Am I missing something?

Ray (64BJ8P1)

Take a look at this article where they replaced the Type 16 calipers with the Toyota ones on a TR6. At least a 19 ft. improvement in stopping distance with the 'yota parts:
https://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-conversion.shtml

 

[maxwedge5281]

i asked this on the brake hose thread but will ask here as well......which toyota caliper...model and year....are you guys talking about for the conversion? thanks

 

[HealeyRick]

i asked this on the brake hose thread but will ask here as well......which toyota caliper...model and year....are you guys talking about for the conversion? thanks

Just google the Centric part#s Steve has provided, Amazon, Rock Auto, etc will carry them fully loaded (with pads) or not:

Centric Part numbers for Amazon searches for the two sides: 142.44011 and 142.44012

 

[steveg]

Just google the Centric part#s Steve has provided, Amazon, Rock Auto, etc will carry them fully loaded (with pads) or not:

The price I quoted was from Amazon a couple of days ago for calipers loaded with ceramic pads. I've used the Centric and Raybestos re-mfgs and they are both high quality - new bolts & seals. I bought a cheaper one and it was cleaned up on the outside only, with loose rust in the cylinders. Would stick to the known brands.

RockAuto doesn't match that outright price - most of theirs have a core charge or are unloaded.

 

[maxwedge5281]

for information regarding shipping....from healey spares to south carolina is approximately 75 dollars at current rates.

 

[maxwedge5281]

well i took the easy way out and ordered the four piston kit from healey spares. the kit arrived yesterday evening and it is a very nice kit....no instructions other than have this kit installed by a professional! well i aint no professional and i will make a daring attempt to install today?

 

[steveg]

well i took the easy way out and ordered the four piston kit from healey spares. the kit arrived yesterday evening and it is a very nice kit....no instructions other than have this kit installed by a professional! well i aint no professional and i will make a daring attempt to install today?

Does your system include a booster? If not, will be interested to hear how the pedal pressure is after installing the 4-pot calipers.

 

[steveg]

FWIW - AH Spares sells aluminum brackets which specifically allow the use of later 3.5" Type 16 brakes with late BJ8 1/2" rotors on the earlier stub axles.
This makes it possible to convert earlier cars to the Toyota 4-pot calipers, without sourcing the impossible-to-find BJ8 stub axles.