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BJ8 Idler Gear [Steering]

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pkmh

pkmh

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Hi all,

Quick question...

I remember reading older posts about what lubricant was recommended for the Idler Gear.

This morning, I found grease was used. But what I did was remove the grease as much as possible and used the Steering Box Lubricant (Moss's brand).

I used this because I remember at one show someone mentioned to use a heavy weight oil such as 90W.

So, is my use of the steering box oil acceptable or is there something I should used instead.

Thanks for any input offered,

Paul
 
So, is my use of the steering box oil acceptable--

-Yep

The use of grease in the steering box and idler was changed after grease was found to allow excessive wear/= :cheers:
 
My specialist made an extra grease fitting ...
That because the bushes grooves end halfway

DSC_6538.jpg


Hans
 
Grease does not "flow" as readily as oil. When the steering worm moves the peg one way, it pushes the grease out of the way and then when it moves the other way the grease stays where it is. It's O.K. to use grease on a temporary basis and it's better than a dry steering or idler box.
I used 90W oil for years until I eventually developed a leak in the steering box from the washboard road on Pikes Peak (2002). Replacing the 90W oil with Penrite Steering Oil stopped the leak and it has not recurred.
 
Thanks all!

Never experienced any kind of leakage in this area but then again, only the grease was used and nothing lighter.

Hopefully, no wear or damage is done because of the grease used, since it seems the Idler was thoroughly packed with grease.

Paul
 
I've been told that 90W oil is fine unless it leaks. The special steering box oil is designed to stop leaks, but it costs more and is not readily available at most parts stores. No need to order the special stuff if 90W doesn't leak.

Keith
 
This is a fairly well discussed topic on some forums... The problem is that when somebody says "never use grease" they don't understand that there is no such thing as "grease". Grease is a category of lubricants, of which there are probably a hundred types for specific and or historic applications and only a small few are suitable for steering boxes. Any grease of the semi-fluid kind should work ok.

Steering box lubricant is a type of grease that is semi-fluid, funnily enough designed specifically for leaky old steering boxes and it works just fine.

EP oil will also work fine but will eventually end up on the floor. I'd reckon many more steering boxes have been ruined by a slow leak and lack of maintenance than from being filled with grease.

Andy.
 
Hopefully, I will have no major problems with my idler for the reason that the grease found within was not hardened or "old" looking.

But for now, I removed as much as possible and replaced with the "Steering Box" lubricant as put out by companies like Moss, etc.

I used that for the steering box (obviously) as well. And because this topic does cover steering, while at that, I adjusted the set screw to the steering box to reduce the amount of play to the steering wheel which had a swing play from side to side of about 2 inches. I reduced that to less than 1" and am happy about that, unless one can advise further that it should have zero play.

Thanks, all!

Paul
 
But for now, I removed as much as possible and replaced with the "Steering Box" lubricant as put out by companies like Moss, etc.----- :cheers:
 
Paul, the procedure for adjusting the steering free play as given in the workshop manual is a bit more complicated than that. I've never done the steering adjustment so I don't know how much difference it makes to follow the workshop procedure as opposed to what you did; but it specifies adjusting the free play of the steering cam bearings with shims before adjusting the steering rocker shaft, both with the steering side rod disconnected from the steering arm.
 
Steve,

Thanks for that info. Didn't realize there was more needed to what I did. I guess I need to check the books further now.

What I did so far was as advised from another Healey owner at a show a couple of months ago, where he mentions to unlock the 3/4 inch hex nut before turning the studded screw to adjust and minimize the amount of steering wheel play. There was a lot of play and I did reduce it by half, but I would still like to reduce it further.

But thanks again. I will investigate.

Paul

PS: Keoke, Hand me another round. Thanks!
 
Removed the top screw on the steering Idler today to check the oil level. Screwdriver touched the bottom, showed very little oil on the tip.
I'm assuming it's almost empty. No leaks. Interesting. Steers fine. Read that 90 weight oil is acceptable, or should I buy the Moss Steering Box Lubricant?
Do I need to remove this, somehow clean the inside out? Rebuild the unit or simply fill this unit up with Lubricant?
What damage can be done with not enough lubricant?
 
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I'd just fill it with gear oil and see what happens; if it leaks right out your bushing and seal are probably shot. If you're concerned, pull the lever off and check for side play; if there's a lot a rebuild is in order (be glad it isn't the steering box).
 
I think we might be mixing up the terms about the steering box and the idler box. The idler box idler box is fastened to the chasis on the opposite side of the steering box to carry the steering arms. If you are checking your idler box you are not going to drop a screw driver very far down inside of it. The idler shaft is a solid shaft which fills the complete void of the idler box. The top end of the idler shaft is just below the top cover of the box itself and there is no room for very much oil or anything else in there. The idler shaft is held in position by bronze bushings. The bronze bushings have grooves cut into their bearing surfaces to allow what little oil you can get in there to weep down along the shaft. The shaft and bushings have to be a very snug fit otherwise the shaft would be loose in the idler box and the steering would be loose. When you install new bushing you have to hone them to fit the shaft that's how snug the fit is. If you try to push grease of anykind, whether it is pentrite steering box lube or a 00 corn grease or etc it will not get very far down the idler shaft because of the snug fit and the very small void at the top. Realize that you also need the top plate to fit the top of the shaft snuggly to keep the shaft from moving up and down in the box. So there is no void to speak of. The ideal lubricant would be a 90 w oil. This is because it will just saturate along the bushings and keep the shaft and bushing lubricated as long as it last. But truth is it leaks out. That is why some of us have come to the conclusion to install a zerk fitting in the body of the idler box. The only small void along the shaft of the shaft is a distance between the bushings where the diameter of the shaft is smaller that the ID of the boring in the box by the thickness of the bushings. That's the only place you can put a zerk fitting because anywhere else and the inside end of the zerk fitting will scrap against the shaft. You will see in my one pic that I have installed a small washer under the zerk fitting. This is to shim it out a wee bit to keep it from scraping the shaft. You can pour 90 weight oil into the top of the idler box and hope that it will weep down to the bottom bushing, but good luck. I have elected to put in the zerk fitting and just grease it every spring. I have put the Pentrite steering box lube into a small dedicated grease gun and I inject it into the center of the idler box every year. See pics:
 

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steveg said:
Adjusting the idler vertical play is done with gaskets under the cap, known as "joint washers". The Bentley manual, section K.5 states:
Click to expand...

Your right Steve. And it is because of those joint washers that you can not inject much oil let alone grease into the top of the idle box.
 
vette said:
Your right Steve. And it is because of those joint washers that you can not inject much oil let alone grease into the top of the idle box.
Click to expand...

yup - that's why I slathered my shaft when I had it apart. Next time, I'll install a zerk like you've done.

FWIW - I'm currently using Sten's NLGI 00 grease in box and idler. Just checked my bottle and it pours easily at my garage temp, currently 72 F:

screenshot.1636.jpg
 
vette said:
The idler box idler box is fastened to the chasis on the opposite side of the steering box to carry the steering arms. If you are checking your idler box you are not going to drop a screw driver very far down inside of it. The idler shaft is a solid shaft which fills the complete void of the idler box. The top end of the idler shaft is just below the top cover of the box itself and there is no room for very much oil or anything else in there.
Click to expand...

The silver steering idler, right side of car. I removed the 3/8 square blanking plug. The idler shaft must have a cavity down the center. A thin screwdriver bottoms out at about 2 1/4”. I read SAE 85W-140 oil can be used. Top off as needed, do not overfill. Thoughts on using Castrol HYPOY C gear oil, SAE 85W-140?
 
Ha ha! Try pouring that in PA.





steveg said:
yup - that's why I slathered my shaft when I had it apart. Next time, I'll install a zerk like you've done.

FWIW - I'm currently using Sten's NLGI 00 grease in box and idler. Just checked my bottle and it pours easily at my garage temp, currently 72 F:

View attachment 58237
Click to expand...
 
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