A question for the electrical crowd.

[DavidApp]

Or getting into places where Snakes are exposed. Crawl spaces. Don't tell my wife but I found a snake skin in the crawl space one time. Hope it was long gone.

David

 

[pdplot]

My house was built in 1950 and all our plugs except for the bathrooms and the kitchen are 2-prong. I'm running short on rubber adaptors since most things today are 3-prong, although I have 4 surge protectors, all with 3 prong outlets. We have two circuit breaker panels - one in the garage, the other in the kitchen in the back of a cabinet. Most of the breakers are very hard to cycle on and off. They work like an up-down light switch. One breaker in the garage doesn't seem to affect anything in the house. I wonder if the system should be modernized and how much $$$?

 

[Boink]

My house was built in 1950 and all our plugs except for the bathrooms and the kitchen are 2-prong. I'm running short on rubber adaptors since most things today are 3-prong, although I have 4 surge protectors, all with 3 prong outlets. We have two circuit breaker panels - one in the garage, the other in the kitchen in the back of a cabinet. Most of the breakers are very hard to cycle on and off. They work like an up-down light switch. One breaker in the garage doesn't seem to affect anything in the house. I wonder if the system should be modernized and how much $$$?

We flipped my wife's dad's house (after he passed). It was built in the mid-50s I think, and had all 2-prong un-grounded outlets... BUT, and this was told to me by an electrician to look for, all the wire was early Romex that HAD a ground (that was often snipped off back then). This electrician showed me how one can pig-tail off that shortened/snipped ground and convert to a grounded outlet! We did that throughout. I was amazed (as I'd assumed there was no 3rd grounding wire). We upgraded the main panel to a standard 200 amp service... which also required a new drop-feed (due to location).

Otherwise, re-wiring is a pain in the ol' patootie. Snaking wires is the difficulty. The panel is relatively easy. Still, you're likely looking at $5K (maybe much more).

 

[pdplot]

I checked the main panel. Main shutoff says 200 - I guess we have 200 amp service. Obviously upgraded prior to 1982 when we bought the house. When we redid the bathrooms and kitchens, GFCIs were installed and they work,, especially when my wife turns on the hair dryer. A couple of the breakers in the sub-panel in the kitchen are iffy. From experience, maybe its better to let sleeping dogs lie, especially plumbing and electrical, but they are hard to operate.

 

[Boink]

IF you have a single main 200 amp breaker, then that is good (best)... so unless the panel is full, you can deduct about $1500 to have it swapped out.
[though it's not a difficult job and only requires about $500 or so in parts]

Now, if you have functioning GFCIs then there is ground to those locations. Yes, hair-dryers draw a lot of juice and can easily pop an ill-suited breaker (particularly if there is any else on that line). I presume if you remodeled the kitchen, all new home-run lines were added (as is almost always required)... and same for any bathroom.
Depending on your house, sometimes re-wiring isn't too nasty IF you can access a lot from a basement or crawlspace, or an attic. Most municipalities now also require "AFIs" (arc-fault interrupter breakers in the panel) for bedrooms.

EDIT: Sounds like you had a submain put in for just the kitchen. I might have thought that was much newer.

 

[pdplot]

The submain controls every room in the house including the kitchen. That's the first place I look when lights go out. The garage main panel also controls the AC - double breaker, and the well pump - single.
My neighbor to the south just got his power back. North's generator is still running.

 

[DavidApp]

The guy that helped me build my house was a retired contractor. While he was working on a shop building wiring he would snip the ground wire off saying all the tools only have 2 pins so what do you need the ground for.
When we started on the house I said we will have the grounds connected in the house. And we did have every ground connected. I tested them to be sure.

David

 

[Keoke]

Most modern electrical equipment power cords have 3 pins , Hot , Neutral & Chassis Ground to protect the user in case of an internal short in the load.

 

[Boink]

The guy that helped me build my house was a retired contractor. While he was working on a shop building wiring he would snip the ground wire off saying all the tools only have 2 pins so what do you need the ground for.
When we started on the house I said we will have the grounds connected in the house. And we did have every ground connected. I tested them to be sure.

Pure laziness to skip the ground (if you ask me). While it's true that many modern hand-tools are insulated, much is not.
Even when there is a 3 prong, I would test all such outlets (which is easy to do).

 

[PAUL161]

Aha, looks like I have another customer! Will he survive? Good question.
View attachment 64941

 

[John Turney]

I checked the main panel. Main shutoff says 200 - I guess we have 200 amp service. Obviously upgraded prior to 1982 when we bought the house. When we redid the bathrooms and kitchens, GFCIs were installed and they work,, especially when my wife turns on the hair dryer. A couple of the breakers in the sub-panel in the kitchen are iffy. From experience, maybe its better to let sleeping dogs lie, especially plumbing and electrical, but they are hard to operate.

The iffy breakers are easy to replace if one can still buy the same brand. They can wear out if tripped too many times. The rating should not be increased, however.

 

[DavidApp]

I think it was a bit of laziness and lack of understanding. He had a preference for using the push connections in the outlets rather than the screw connections.
Some years later I had problems with the bathroom outlets. Thought the GFI outlet had gone bad so I replaces it but that did not fix the problem. Traced it to the next outlet that was feed by the load side of the GFI outlet. The push in connection has been arcing. Replaced the outlet and used the screw terminals.

David

Pure laziness to skip the ground (if you ask me). While it's true that many modern hand-tools are insulated, much is not.
Even when there is a 3 prong, I would test all such outlets (which is easy to do).

 

[DavidApp]

A neighbor asked me what was wrong with their breaker because it was hot. Went and had a look and sure enough it was HOT. It was the AC breaker. It was a 30 amp 220 breaker and the AC was pulling 25 amps. It was in a Modular home (Up market name for trailer) and the breaker box was mounted on the wall by the back door. The neighbor said the AC would go off every time her husband slammed the door.
Told them they should get an electrician to check the panel as something could be lose causing that to happen. They got a new breaker and all is well so far. Think he is more careful with the door.

David

The iffy breakers are easy to replace if one can still buy the same brand. They can wear out if tripped too many times. The rating should not be increased, however.

 

[Boink]

A neighbor asked me what was wrong with their breaker because it was hot. Went and had a look and sure enough it was HOT. It was the AC breaker. It was a 30 amp 220 breaker and the AC was pulling 25 amps. It was in a Modular home (Up market name for trailer) and the breaker box was mounted on the wall by the back door. The neighbor said the AC would go off every time her husband slammed the door.
Told them they should get an electrician to check the panel as something could be lose causing that to happen. They got a new breaker and all is well so far. Think he is more careful with the door.

I've seen sort of loose ones before... that got hot (from a bit of arcing). 30A at 220V is typically for a dryer (or equivalent).

 

[pdplot]

I have a good electrician. I'll see what he says. Many folks here still have no power.

 

[NutmegCT]

Paul - remember "Reddy Kilowatt"?

Aha, looks like I have another customer! Will he survive? Good question.
View attachment 64941

 

[pdplot]

Yeah. He was a cousin of Wolley Segap.
Ma Bell. We didn't know how good we had it.

 

[Popeye]

Good to have an electrician friend to give you an honest assessment. Old wiring can be deadly; as the load on the wires increase with increasing wattage, the wire runs hotter (hair driers, 100W bulbs, flat screen TV's, and so forth - stuff that did not exist in 1950). The insulation decomposes with the heat of higher currents, and the result can be fire. Old connections can loosen, especially if not done properly in the first place. In our previous house, I found an outlet in the kids room was charred inside from a loose connection (and the loose connection powered the kitchen lights... odd!).

Last year, we paid 25k to have a full house re-wire, plus service upgrade to 200A. Lots of small holes in the walls, three folks crawling all over the house for a few weeks. Every wire was replaced, two new panels installed - probably overkill, but the house was empty (just bought it) and I thought best to make all the mess at once. We found a few doozies in the process, so I am glad we did everything. For example the master bedroom outlets were wired with a single hot wire. The neutral was connected to the cable shield (a low quality ground).

In your case it might be prudent to review a few outlets, e.g. bathroom, kitchen, and other places where you plug high power loads in. Electricians make many holes, but they tend to be small - compared to the plumbing work we did, plastering up 4"x3" holes was nothing! (Can't snake pipes!!)

Good luck!

 

[pdplot]

I turned on the AC and the voltage went down to 105.4 as shown on that surge protector. The room light is dimmer now. The light in the room went out completely for about a second and the surge protector kicked off and then quickly restarted. When the printer turned out a document the light also dimmed.I had 125 volts this afternoon. What is going on? We never had this trouble ever, even when the washing machine and the dishwasher were in at the same time.

 

[Boink]

Perhaps it's earlier in the thread, but what has truly changed?