Bias ply tires [cross ply tyres]- more for less?

[Fairview]

Are there any of you running Dunlop Road Speeds on your Healeys? My Michelins are getting up there in years, thinking of paying the big money for Road Speeds for authenticity's sake.

My Triumph TR3 had bias ply tires and it was surprisingly pleasant to drive (the type of driving I do- like an old man, going to the grocery, post office, gently through the mountains and back roads).

I realize I'd be paying twice as much for half as much tire, but the idea of going back to the original style appeals to me very much.

Dunlop Road Speeds 5.90H15

Thanks, Jeff

 

[RAC68]

My car, as most Healey BJ8s, cam with Dunlop Road Speeds and I loved them. My wife to eventually be, lived in North Eastern PA and I would drive from NYC through a freshly paved mountainous (Eastern mountains) reserve for about 25 miles. Since the car was new (and I was a young City boy), I had no thought of deer or any other potential risk and took the car into 4-wheel drifts on many of the most challenging turns.

Well, it was only about 6 months before I needed new tires and chose Pirelli Cinturato radials (radial tires were relatively uncommon at that time) as they were supposed to give warning before braking loose (as compared to the Michelin X with no warning). As usually, I took my favorite road through Pike County, Pa and went into my first 4-wheel drift around the side of a mountain and gorge. To my horror, the tires didn’t brake loose and, luckily, was heading for the side of the mountain and not over the cliff.

If the Road Speeds were as original and you even drive you Healey half as aggressive as I did back then, you may want to also choose your next set of tires to save time.

Enjoy and Have Fun,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[elrey]

I have had each,.. and though I prefer the improvement in handling and braking afforded by modern radials, I appreciate your leanings. I would have two sets of wheels/tyres. One for show, one for go.

 

[glemon]

I remember similar experience to Ray with my Sprite back in the day, not the cliff, but transformation in the handling going to radials.

That being said, I have found that old british sports cars with bias plies or skinny radials can be more fun to drive than they are with sticky tires. Lighter steering, lower limits with means your suspension and lean angles are less when you do slide, which generally makes them more controllable and better behaved in such situations, in short fun to chuck around.

I have an old set of Roadspeeds with tubes and wires, they look great and hold air, but are way past their born on date, would be fine for driving to the show, but not much else, have been trying to find someone interested in them for that limited use, they do look quite different than a modern radial even a skinny one, for some time, they look too good to throw away, but aren't daily driver material.

 

[Editor_Reid]

My 100M has the reproduction Dunlop Roadspeed tires on original 48-spoke wire wheels. I love them. I love the look and I love the way they drive. That said - and this is very, very important - the handling and especially the stopping distance are both significantly compromised compared to what you get on modern radials. You absolutely must remain aware of these factors or you could easily get into trouble. I don't drive my 100M a lot and I certainly don't use it for commuting or to run errands. And in addition to the high cost, they will wear much more quickly that modern radials. I don't believe that I could recommend them for a car that is used a lot or for errands.

My other 100 has Avon ZZ tires (see Avon tires for Healeys ). These are also very expensive and they won't last nearly as long as "normal" tires, but the handling is fabulous and rivals racing tires. I never worry about my tires in that car. The handling is completely different from how the car handled on its original Dunlop Roadspeed tires, but they are so much safer.

 

[glemon]

with Reid, it is the flip side of fun and chuckable, they are fun and chuckable on bias plies because the limits are so much lower, you need to be aware of those lower limits, but if you haven't experienced a 100 or TR3 or MGA on the tires they originally wore you have missed a true vintage experience.

 

[Fairview]

Thanks, guys, for all the advice and input. Based on your experiences, I am planning on taking the plunge with Road Speeds.

Heck, what's a few more hundred when I'm already in this deep?

Putting on new tires, getting an alignment, will be a good opportunity to get my steering wheel exactly straight going down the road. It is a bit off to the right, will eventually drive me a little crazy.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

The only adjustment is toe-in, and it affects both sides equally so it's not likely to move your steering wheel position. You have to pull the wheel off and move it counterclockwise; one spline should just about do it.

Toe is fairly easy to set; you can do it yourself and save the cost of an alignment. It can be done with a tape measure, but there are some simple rigs that can help.

 

[Keoke]

Well I would look at a modern set of Verdestien Sprints befpre I wpuld buy old tyre technology.---Keoke

 

[EV2239]

I wouldn't put cross plies on a dumpster! Dangerous isn't in it and it get worse as they wear.

 

[WaltCasten]

Well I would look at a modern set of Verdestien Sprints befpre I wpuld buy old tyre technology.---Keoke

The best price on these I've found is from Jeg's @ $117 each.

Vredestein Sprint Classic 165R15 Jegs

I am not sure if that includes shipping or not, either way a lot less that the Dunlops.

 

[Keoke]

:thumbsup:-----------------------Keoke

 

[AUSMHLY]

I wouldn't put cross plies on a dumpster! Dangerous isn't in it and it get worse as they wear.

I hear this type of logic all the time. I don't agree.
People ask me, do you drive your Healey much? Almost everyday I say. People think, that's old technology, it's an old car, it isn't safe to drive that car. (I did a frame off restoration, so the car is as in new condition as I can get it. Don't want to start a debate about...the frame is old or some of the rebuilt parts are still old metal, etc. So let's not open that can of worms)

Back in the 60's my father's daily driver was his 64BJ8, it had bias tires on in. All cars back then had bias tires. All cars back then were built without air bags, door beams, all the safety features that are in modern cars. Doesn't mean the car is a death trap. What was true then is true now, drive your car in a safe manor and watch out for others around you.

I've actually thought about putting on the bias tires too, for that brings the car that much closer to how the car originally drove. And I would think, that for some of us, it's about driving the car and feeling how it drove back in the day.

Putting on radials will change the way the car handles. Increasing the width of the radials will change the drive feel even more. Install gas shocks, replace the steering wheel. Guess what, the more of those "improvements" one does, the more you lose the original Healey driving experience. It starts feeling more like a modern car. If that's the drive you're looking for, drive a Miata.

All Healey's have their own unique personality when you drive them. I have a friend who has a 66BJ8, and when I drive his car, it handles different then mine. The clutch pressure and travel, the smoothness of the transmittion, the pressure you need on the brakes to stop it.

My point is you get use to the car your driving. Put radial or bias tires on it, and you'll get use the way the car handles. Then drive the car knowing how hard you can push it thru a corner or the stopping distance.

One may say, radials are safer because it stops quicker. Well that doesn't matter when your in the wrong place at the right time, and no matter what, your not going to stop soon enough. Look ahead and know your stopping distance. Know your car.

Cheers

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Agree 100%.

 

[RAC68]

I think you‘ve captured the essence of the motivation.

Driving the Healey when new was both challenging and enjoyable. It was joy to through the rear around and brake all four loose in a turn. I was young, automotive safety was limited, and with my lap belts installed, I thought I was driving one of the safer cars on the road.

For those of us who use their Healey as a memory portal, changes must be carefully considered. An alternator, halogens, and even a relatively modern sound system (to play the Beach Boys), will not change the true essence of the car. But, radials, a 5-speed, and even tube shocks have exerted a greater transformative effects on the Healey’s underlying driving experience to threaten the portal and, although safer and more comfortable, will eventually silence its ability to stimulate the memories that made us love these cars.

Life’s experiences, marriage, and children/grandchildren may have warn away my more aggressive edges but, with extra funds, I would certainly buy a set of Road Speed if to just briefly kindle the fun.

Ray (64BJ8P1) Original Owner

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

I think you‘ve captured the essence of the motivation.

Driving the Healey when new was both challenging and enjoyable. It was joy to through the rear around and brake all four loose in a turn. I was young, automotive safety was limited, and with my lap belts installed, I thought I was driving one of the safer cars on the road.

For those of us who use their Healey as a memory portal, changes must be carefully considered. An alternator, halogens, and even a relatively modern sound system (to play the Beach Boys), will not change the true essence of the car. But, radials, a 5-speed, and even tube shocks have exerted a greater transformative effects on the Healey’s underlying driving experience to threaten the portal and, although safer and more comfortable, will eventually silence its ability to stimulate the memories that made us love these cars.

Life’s experiences, marriage, and children/grandchildren may have warn away my more aggressive edges but, with extra funds, I would certainly buy a set of Road Speed if to just briefly kindle the fun.

Ray (64BJ8P1) Original Owner

I recell that there wasn't any "training" needed to learn how to drive with radials when they came out, but to go back to the bias tires you would need to "read up" on handling characteristics to keep yourself out of trouble..

 

[AUSMHLY]

I recell that there wasn't any "training" needed to learn how to drive with radials when they came out, but to go back to the bias tires you would need to "read up" on handling characteristics to keep yourself out of trouble..

Staying out of trouble is good
However I don't think you need to be schooled again to drive on bias tires, as if the driving instructor "read up" is sitting next to you. I remember driving school, and how nervus I was when he was next to me with his clip board. I don't remember ever reading or talking about how a car handles with bias tires.

If there wasn't any "training" needed to learn how to drive radials, because you learn as you drive, then you didn't need to "read up" on them. The same would be true for bias tires. You learned how to drive on them originally and it's like getting back on the bicycle. For those who started their driving on radials, then when you're behind the wheel of a car with bias, there will be a learning curve. Just like when you get behind the wheel of any car with a manual tranmission. You learn the clutch pressure of that car as you go.

I think the difference comes down to how aggressive you're going to drive the car. When will the back end come out. If that's your concern, then you're most likely pushing the car harder than you should be on local streets. Get on a track or large emty parking lot and test the ability of the tires. When do they start to give.

One of the pluses of bias tires is the car will be more nimble when making lane chances and lighter when making a u-turn. I love how easy, smooth and nimble my car makes lane changes on the freeway, and I'm running radials. I can only image how lighter the car must feel on bias tires, and that's what driving a Healey back in the 60's must have felt like. Can I get a Wooo Hooo.

 

[Fairview]

Dont' worry about me too much, I've got plenty of recent experience driving bias ply tires (1931 Model A Ford roadster) with rod brakes, to boot.

The Model A handles "like a hog on ice". I imagine the Healey with bias ply tires will be a dream by comparison.

 

[Keoke]

The Model A handles "like a hog on ice". The Healey with bias ply tires will be like Two hogs on ice.---Keoke--- .

 

[EV2239]

I'm in the UK and roads are different, but the thing I notice with older cars, particularly Healeys is that if you're driving as fast as you would in a modern on cross country roads, you're very near the limit. I had a couple of BMW R75/5s too that gave the same message. We have far greater margins of safety now.

Cross plies start bad and get much worse as they wear, they are steered all over the road by over banding and surface irregularities and they magnify any wear in the steering and suspension.

I recall a letter written to the Rolls-Royce Enthusiasts Club by an old gent who was getting impatient with a cross plies versus radial argument (all car clubs have them). He explained that his RS5s lasted about 10,000 miles by which time the car was almost undriveable, that he'd several times lost the back and ruined a wheel in the wet and that he was conscious of holding up the traffic because he had to drive so slowly. He then changed to Michelins and couldn't believe the difference, he'd done 50,000 miles and still the handling was as good and he could drive as fast as modern traffic without worry. The R Type Continental has a similar performance to the Healey and better handling.

He'd have been a very slow driver because I get 10 or 12,000 out if the Michelins on my MKVI.

When they are new, there isn't a great difference between the two types except in the wet, so a worn out radial may seem worse than a new crossply, but as they wear so the cross plies get much worse.

We have one or two using Blockleys and they are just as horrid, but I believe they too, now make a radial for post war cars.

Ash