Who Likes a Triumph Anyway [and why]?

[sammyb]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

Eric from Kamloops, here here!!! Eric hit the nail on the head. Character is about offering more in some specific area that makes that experience memorable. It's not just about giving equal performance, style and luxury -- it's about delivering large enough doses of one, two or all.

The Elise ain't luxurious -- it's downright unlivable! But it has character. And if you can walk away from a drive in a BMW 745i and say it doesn't ooze character, then I suggest we get you to the ER for an EKG.

Everyone seems to think that somehow the cars from the glory days (what ever era that means to you) are somehow easier to differentiate than modern cars. "That's when you could tell a Pontiac from an Olds" or "That's when not all cars looked alike."

I drive, write about and analyze old cars for a living...and trust me...cars look no more alike today than they did 10, 20, 30,50, or 80 years ago. Cars look like their contemporaries. A successful shape has always been quickly copied. In 1958, almost all American cars sprouted quad headlights. At the same time in England, the smiling car look was on just about every sports car's front apron.

Pick up the Encyclopedia of American Cars by Consumer Guide and compare a 1955 Packard to a 1955 Caddy. Or a 1947 Lincoln Continental to a 1947 Caddy. How about a 1933 Lincoln to a 1933 Ford? Maybe a 1964 Buick Special to a '64 Pontiac GTO? How about a Datsun 2000 to a MG Midget. A XK120 to a TR2?

Sure, if you are very familiar with these cars, you say "it's easy to tell the difference." The same is true with modern cars. And as for taking styling risks, it simply doesn't pay ...just ask Chris Bangle!

 

[waltesefalcon]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

I like the Triumph marque because they are robust, gutsy, handle great, have great styling, and are affordable. Sorry all you MGB fans, but no B will ever turn heads like a Spitfire. The TR2, TR3, TR4, TR250, TR6, Spitfire, and GT6 are all beautifully designed cars. They have carachter thats head and shoulders above any MG after the T series cars, and they are more affordable than pretty much any Healy, or Jag. You combine those factors with tough reliable little engines and great handling and you have a nearly unbeatable combination.

 

[Guest]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

I don't really know why it is but every time I am in my TR6 and come across a group of Harley bikers, large or small, invariably the majority of the riders will cast a acknowledging glance my way. Hmmmmm. The ultimate compliment I would think. Whether they are Walter Mitty or Peter Fonda, I feel their glance of admiration and approval.
Wonder what they are thinking.

Bill

 

[prb51]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

Some vehicle just fit your personality. It's 7.45 p.m. and I just drove home in my 56 TR3 from our small town. 50 degrees and 65 mph highway with no top and who cares. Our cars have personality, they are individuals with quirks and issues like the people we interact with all day. I had a 93 Miata, supercharged and tricked out, that could blow the doors of a 5 liter Mustang off the line - it bored me.... no personality...consistant, reliable, but engineered to the level of 'finishing school' where there is nothing to do but say 'good night'. I love the cowl shake, tune me right or forget me,in your face 'motoring' that only some cars provide. At night on a lonesome road it's like flying a tiger moth and makes you feel alive. Feeling alive is a good thing, modern vehicles make you feel 'transported'.

 

[AltaKnight]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

Of course we should get real once in a while, when it's -25 outside and snow up to your wazoo like it was here a couple weeks ago, it's kind of nice to jump in a modern car that starts instantly (no choke to mess with) and "transports" me effortlessly and safely to work (and the computerized ABS and traction control helps too!)
I do like the Tiger Moth analogy above! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[sammyb]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

Harley guys LOVE Triumphs, because TRs are one of the few cars that have a factory exhaust note that makes you think a monster truck is approaching.

I put on a collector car drive last weekend, and I was following a friend of mine who was driving my big-block '69 Corvette. I couldn't hear the Vette at all over the TR3's engine and exhaust note.

 

[jayhawk]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

I also sold a Miata for my TR3-- Miata are great cars, great handling, reliability, etc but nothing really.... well, special.

 

[kindofblue]

Does your car have character?

Does anyone remember the Peter Egan article of the same name. My Triumph has character for sure. Nothing today is quite like it. It oozes an actual aroma, when I open the side door to my garage I can smell it. Something like old oil. I think it is similar to the aroma I smelled inside a train garage where they were restoring a steam engine.

I actually have never driven any of these cars: a Triumph, a Miata or an MGB so I can't comment whether the Miata has character. However, I drive cars every day for work, and I have come across some modern cars that scream character (real - not injected). A PT cruiser had character when it arrived, but now feels injected, like a new Beetle. The Jeep Wrangler oozes character, a throwback to a design from 50 years ago. The 2005 Grand Cherokee, and Liberty do not have that character, just the name badge.
Two modern cars I have driven that jump right out and grab you are the Subaru Impreza WRX STi, and the Chrysler 300C Hemi. The Subie has such a unique exhaust bark that I can pick it out in a field of traffic (like a mid 80's Saab Turbo, or a 6 cyl Triumph, 2 cars with character.) Then you have the go cart ride, the mechanical sound of the 6 speed gearbox in action, and the wail of a huge turbo.
The 300C is a bit different. This car makes you feel like king of the road, or a mafia hit man. The V-8 burbles like my friends Mustang, and has the punch to match. The car corners well. What really gives you the flavor is the in your face exterior styling, that is matched by the interior. The sightline through the gunslit front window follows the power bulge on the hood right to the end of the grill. You've never felt so "cool" behind the wheel. I can't believe I sound so much like a Chrysler ad, especially after spending so much time in rental grade Sebrings, Stratus, Neons, and minivans.

My point, is that each time period has its winners and losers. The Triumph reprint ad I got from TRF hightlights this. "Triumph over conformity." A sea of boring 60's American sedans versus a Triumph. I saw a video of trolley footage from the 50's and 60s in Philadelphia. The streets weren't full of 57 Chevys and Muscle Cars. Most of the cars around the trolleys were 2 and 4 door yank tanks that are now forgotten. The Triumph is the complete opposite of a modern Toyota Camry, but it was also the opposite of an Impala 6-cyl sedan in its day.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Re: Does your car have character?

[ QUOTE ]
I also sold a Miata for my TR3--

[/ QUOTE ]
Your comment brought to mind a Peter Egan article...

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone remember the Peter Egan article of the same name...

[/ QUOTE ]
...okay it might have been that one. He opined that picking your date up in a Miata says "I love you, I will care for you". Picking your date up in a TR3 says "Let's see what you're made of".

 

[sammyb]

Re: Does your car have character?

Kindofblue hit on a great point -- certain cars age well and gain more character (such as the TR3) others don't. Miatas have character, but what most people don't like is that they are everywhere. Nobody turns to look at a Miata.

Now fast forward 40 years...Miatas will turn heads, have loads of charm and character, and will be collectors items. They will be the MGBs of 2030.

Heritage cars, such as PT Cruisers, new Beetles just don't have longevity. New style lasts and repeats, but repeated style just fades quickly.

 

[gsalt57tr3]

Who looks at a Miata?

It makes me smile when I get to work.

Its an instant antidepressant.

 

[Alan_Myers]

I like my TR4 because I don't have to worry about breaking cheap, plastic parts when I work on it.

And, it has plenty of power, is possible to modify to my hearts content without hooking it up to a computer, doesn't look like every other car on the road and is a ball to drive on a twisty windy road.

Alan

 

[gjh2007]

I think everyone has a good point, Having owned 3 TR,s 1 back in the mid 70's and a Series Land Rover in the mid 90's I think it's the fact that many of these cars are, well just different. I drove a 1988 Range Rover Classic till 6 mos. ago. I have to say that even though it was a fairly modern vehicle, it had a distinct look to it. People could pick me out anywhere in town. I have replaced it with a 2000 Toyota Landcruiser, much More luxurious, more powerful & certainly less maintenance. To tell you the truth it has no real personality, but on those -10deg days the heating system literally blows away the lousy Brit. technology. I love my TR250 because it's easy & cheap to work on & I feel good when I am driving it.

I am past the point of wanting to drive it everyday like I did with my 250 in college, including the winter in the Adirondack mountains!

To just hop in the TR & tool down town or along the ocean just makes my heart fly!

 

[Beavis]

I like mine for the following reasons:

1) Nothing else on the road looks like it. I probably have the only GT6 in my city(St. Louis, been to a few BC shows and never seen a GT6, ever).

2) SMALL! No car offered in America, barring the Lotus Elise, weighs less than 2,000 pounds. This weighs 1,793 pounds! It is also lower than anything else offered in America at this time, barring the Ford GT, only 47 inches. If it seats more than two or is taller than 50 inches, I tend not to like it!

3) Fast. It's certainly not stock in its engine, since it has been upgraded, but nothing on the road that has messed with it has ever gone away without its tail between its legs. Stock 0-60 is about 10 seconds; this is certainly much faster.

4) Handling. Got rotoflex?

5) It marks its territory. It barks at you when you try to start it! It growls when at a stop. It attracts crowds of people that have absolutely no idea what kind of car it is and they always ask questions about it, even with peeling paint from a tacked on temporary paintjob and a cracked windshield. This car has this elusive 'character'. Cars that don't have these quirks lack character, as those traits define it.

6) That sound! It's like having a Harley, or a Ferrari, or a Formula racecar, but it makes it's own unique noise that is instantly recognizable. If you floor it, you can wake the dead!

7) Fuel efficiency. When driven sanely, it gets better fuel economy than many econoboxes. About 30-35 MPGs or so. With a lead foot, that drops to about 15-20.

8) Just plain evil. Autocross? Twisty country roads? Lots of traffic and some idiot wants to play James Dean? Ok!

9) Monetarily inexpensive. I challenge you to find me a car, used or not, that can perform like this for less than $5,000. I got her for $1,200. It's tossable and can take abuse due to its relatively low cost to repair compared to other cars, although it needs lots of babying(time).

10) You can scare the crap out of family members. Just take them for a ride that they'll never forget.

 

[Webb Sledge]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To be summed up in one word: character. Modern cars just don't have it. Any of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Webb,
Sorry, but I simply just don't agree. (Usually it's old farts who say "they don't make 'em like they used to," but you're too young to be blinded by nostalgia /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

It's nice to say that new cars don't have character, but I can list plenty of new cars that have character in spades, just like a TR or MG.

For instance, have you ever run a Honda S2000 up to it's 9000 redline? (Okay, the current one is now down to 8500.) How about have you ever autocrossed a Miata? Ever taken a full-throttle jaunt around a freeway cloverleaf in a Boxster, 911 or BMW M3? How about looking down the long, sleek hood of a C5 Corvette with the HUD showing a three-digit speed?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to have to disagree in return /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif Those cars you described are good cars, without a doubt. They're fast, comfortable, practical, and reliable. But I think you're confusing "good" or "good looking" with character. Have you ever seen a S2000 have mood swings? I'd swear on my life that my TR6 does. With the cold weather recently, the starter had been refusing to work, but today it was warm(ish) so I decided to go give it a try. Fired up on the first turn of the engine. And maybe I'm not nostalgic, but I know and love what's unique and interesting. New BMWs don't mark their territory, and probably wouldn't have anybody but engineers and serious car enthusiasts staring at is as it drove by, either. IMHO, it's hard to name a specific trait to character. It's just one of those things that you knows it's got them moment you turn the key.

 

[Beavis]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

Speaking of mood swings, mine is quite fussy. Seems a bit lethargic, not wanting to start a little more than half the time, but once she does, she goes like a bat out of heck. But it'll be all good and fine once I turn her into an electric, granting a serious jolt of energy and power. It'll be like taking some crystal meth. And if I'm not careful, the contactor could self-weld, keeping the car 'on' at full throttle! Don't want to get her too hyper now.

She's so lazy you have to choke her to get her attention, and she won't even respond most of the time. Then she gets mad and wants to go fast because she's so wizzed. And she'll scream like a banshee the entire time!

 

[Darwin]

The freedom felt while riding with the top down. Returning for a while to simpler time. That sweet sound that only a little British car can have. Easy to work on. See my poem in Writer's Forum for more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[sammyb]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever seen a S2000 have mood swings? ... New BMWs don't mark their territory, and probably wouldn't have anybody but engineers and serious car enthusiasts staring at is as it drove by, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of all cars to pick to make your point, Webb, S2000 is the ultimate mood swing car. It has the same power output as an Accord up to 5750 RPMS (well beyond normal shift points on most cars.) It is a brutal car to live with most of the time. Hit 5750 RPMS, though, and VVT kicks in and it literally becomes its evil twin. There is NOTHING in the world quite like a S2000, short of a F1 or CART/IRL racer.

Have you ever driven one?

And in my years of automotive journalism, I have never seen a new range of cars evoke more passion (both positive and negative) as new BMWs. To say that only the most die-hard enthusiasts take notice, I think is somewhat misleading. Do plain-jain 328 sedans get noticed, no...but neither do Spitfires, for the most part. But 745, M5, (and new 5 series) and M3, Z4, and M-coupes all get noticed and people either discuss whether they like the styling, or often they say "I'd love to own one of those." Bimmers have always been true drivers' cars, and its hard to say true drivers' cars don't have character.

BMWs have always invoked passion, just like VWs -- and while many of us find them to be overpriced idiosyncratic maintenance queens...doesn't that just mean they are a lot like our Triumphs.

You're mistaking the fact that you see a lot of them with not having character. As I remember, Webb, you're pretty young, so you don't remember when TRs were new. But when they were new, they were just overpriced, idiosyncratic drivers' cars. There were a lot of them on the road (especially in the Northwest, where I grew up...heck, there are still a gaggle of them on the road...I saw a TR3 yesterday.) They never turned heads in their day in places that had a lot of them. But turning heads in its day isn't the only aspect. Would you say a '55 Chevy has character? It was commonplace, had very reserved styling, was a cheap/inexpensive car. It had above average straight-line performance, but was not nearly the best performer on the road even with higher output options (Buick Century was infinitely better.) Somehow, they are considered true collectables with tons of character.

Character often just means they evoke passion. BMWs evoke passion, TRs do, S2000s do, and many, many other cars. Toyota Avalon? No. Mini Cooper, heck yeah.

 

[Radford]

[ QUOTE ]
I think everyone has a good point, Having owned 3 TR,s 1 back in the mid 70's and a Series Land Rover in the mid 90's I think it's the fact that many of these cars are, well just different. I drove a 1988 Range Rover Classic till 6 mos. ago. I have to say that even though it was a fairly modern vehicle, it had a distinct look to it. People could pick me out anywhere in town. I have replaced it with a 2000 Toyota Landcruiser, much More luxurious, more powerful & certainly less maintenance. To tell you the truth it has no real personality, but on those -10deg days the heating system literally blows away the lousy Brit. technology. I love my TR250 because it's easy & cheap to work on & I feel good when I am driving it.

I am past the point of wanting to drive it everyday like I did with my 250 in college, including the winter in the Adirondack mountains!

To just hop in the TR & tool down town or along the ocean just makes my heart fly!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to say the the TR5/250 has always been one of my favorites (I have a soft spot for the Stag, too). In my humble opinion it was the most agressive looking TR. And that cockpit, well it just screams LBC.

 

[MGA Steve]

Re: I fell in love at a gas station..

I with you, Sammy. I've had a love affair with cars since I grew up in the 1950s--the post-war "Golden Age" of American cars. The difference between our youths is that I never even remember seeing a British car (except a few jacked-up A-Gas Anglias at the local drag strip) until I went to an SCCA race at Continental Divide Raceways in 1963. My hometown had a GM B-O-P assembly plant and all my friends in high school drove American cars--from a '49 Ford flathead with aluminum heads and 3 dueces to a '63 Chevy Impala Super Sport. The most exotic car any of my friends owned was a 1962 340-horse Corvette. But at that race at CDR, I saw brand-new 327 Stingrays blowing the doors off brand-new E-types on the straight, then getting passed by every Jag on the track in the corners. I was hooked on E-types after that race--I thought (and still think) they were the sexiest cars ever built.

The following year, I saw my first 289 Cobra on the street and it could blow the doors off any Corvette on the straight or in the corners. That replaced the Jag as my dream car (and still is), but not as the sexiest!

But today's cars--one word, WOW! The 2005 Mustang GT I drove last fall was the first new Mustang to draw me into a Ford showroom since 1970. I can't wait for the Cobra version with IRS instead of that solid axle to come out, especially if it boasts 400-HP!

My second son's 300-horse, 6-speed 2005 Suburu STi is so fast and has such quick steering that it is almost scary--except that it has road-holding, full-time AWD and the gigantic brakes that no LBC ever had. It is so much fun to drive that it convinced my wife to buy the slightly tamer, 250-HP 2005 Suburu 2.5 GT as her newest car.

The 2005 Elise that I sat in and photographed (but unfortunately didn't get to drive) at the Colorado English Motoring Conclave last fall is a landmark Lotus if there ever was one--surely on an level playing field with the Seven and Elan. And it will still be just as much in demand by car enthusiasts as a "classic sports car" in 35 years as the Elan is today.

That said, I wouldn't trade the "bugs in my teeth" smile that I wear constantly when I drive my red MGA to a car show or cruise night for any new car. And throwing my TR8 through the Colorado mountain "twisties" with the top down and my wife beside me during the Conclave's road tour last fall was one of the most memorable driving experiences of my life.

So . . . why can't we all agree that nearly every generation produces a few cars that will always be distinctive, memorable, collectable (at least to some people), and fun-to-drive. Whether your tastes run to '32 Ford coupes with blown BBC engines to '57 Chevy Bel-Aire convertibles to '69 Boss 302 Mustangs to '86 Buick GNXs to '95 Miatas to '05 Elises, there is a car for every enthusiast. It is just that "quaint," "exotic", "timeless," "character," "classic," and "sporty" have different meanings to different people when it comes to cars, regardless of the dictionary definitions. So, as the French say, "Vive l'difference!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif