Wheel Tire Camber

[dougie]

Danny and Drone Dog are right, you should not use the tire to measure against (how are you accommodating the 'bulge' at the bottom). As Drone Dog said, measure to the rim at the tire bead area and ignore the tire itself.
An alternative to Drone Dogs method is to make a rigid jig that can seat on the rim and extends far enough out to allow you to use a level that clears the hub and tire.
Dave

Hey Dave -

How's the re-build going? I'll be coming up to PRW for the SOVERN Spring Sprints next weekend. Stop by if you can make it.

Best

 

[red57]

Dougie,

Rebuild is inching along.... I was already planning on coming to the Spring Sprints to catch up with several friends so I'll see you there and bring you up to date.

Dave

 

[Randy Forbes]

I've been using one of these for almost twenty (<20) years now; fits on anything (well, I have yet to see if it'll fit my wife's latest DD with 21" rims...).

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/p...MI6uCm1_fa4QIVjICfCh0azwrMEAQYASABEgIMFfD_BwE

In use, hands free. This car actually showed up with a trail of rubber dust behind the right rear wheel, so I wanted to know JUST HOW BAD it was before I worked on it

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Uses the same digital level I posted a link to (may be rebranded).

 

[Randy Forbes]

Uses the same digital level I posted a link to (may be rebranded).

I actually use that level by itself A LOT more than the whole camber gauge. The battery lasts for several years!

 

[AUSMHLY]

The camber on both front wheels are off.

Since I am having the front shocks replaced, this would be a good time to replace the stock rubber trunnion bushings with adjustable ones.

Moss sells a set made out of Delrin and British Parts Northwest sells a set made out of graphic-impregnated polyurethane.

Any opinions on which is better?

Both materials are stiffer then rubber. Will the ride be harsher with Delrin or polyurethane?

The rubber bushings have a metal sleeve and grease should be with the drive pin.
Do I need to grease the Delrin and polyurethane too?

 

[vette]

I used the Delrin offset bushing from Moss. Worked a charm. If I remember right there is a zerk fitting in the top swivel pin bushing but not in the trunion bushing. Never had to touch it after installation. Still good. Don’t notice any difference in ride or steering.

 

[steveg]

I have bronze offset bushings from one of the UK suppliers - not recommended as they were quite a bit more expensive than the plastic bushings, and required machining to fit. No effect on ride.

 

[roscoe]

If y'all have a smart phone or a tablet, there are any number of free apps that give you a digital level and more, that is accurate to .1 degree. I use my Android tablet all the time in my shop, where no section of the floor is level. It was great to use for the new septic system I had to put in to measure slopes to within a tenth of a degree. Peace of mind knowing that stuff will flow downhill. You could make the bracket with the two pins to pick up the wheel rim from just about anything straight.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

... no section of the floor is level ...

Be sure to account for the slope of the floor when you measure camber.

 

[AUSMHLY]

I'll assume to install the rubber bushings one would grease the rubber, inside for the fulcrum pin and outside to help with pressing them straight in. Insert the fulcrum pin, nut, cotter pin. Done.

Being the Delrin offset bushing are a hard material, are they difficult to insert?
Being offset, what's the procedure to get them positioned right the first time, not knowing how much degree change you've made till you have the tires back on level ground?
Let's say it's off, how do you rotate the bushings once they're pressed in?

Am I over thinking this?

 

[roscoe]

Questions in order. No they are not difficult to install, at least in my case. You pretty much can't put the pin in unless they are matched for orientation. No real procedure although I suggest not initially lining them up at either extreme position. It is not likley they will end up that way unless something is tweaked so might as well start in a middle position. Once installed, you might have to back off the nut a bit to turn the bushings so don't cotter key it until done. I moved the bushings by gently grabbing them with vise grips or pliers, moving both at the same time. I took the time to remove the wheel each time I needed to make a move. I snugged the knock off but didn't fully tighten it each time until done. Worked for me. Even though they are harder than the rubber they will stay in position when the nut is tightened. You will figure it out. Plunge ahead.

 

[AUSMHLY]

View attachment 61193

Question to those who have installed these Delrin offset bushings.
Have you noticed any squeaking?

I had my front shocks rebuilt in Nov 2019 and installed these Delrin offset bushings at the same time.
It's now Jan 25, 2020, I've driven about 100 miles since. Yesterday I noticed the drivers side front is squeaking. How loud is it? (I heard some squeaking when I was driving the car). Got out pushed on the wings, ah, it's coming from the drivers front wing, shock area.

I greased every fitting, entire car today, still hear the squeak from the front.
I sprayed some lubricant on lower link bushes. Didn't help.
I sprayed some lubricant of the sway bar bushes. Didn't help.
I sprayed some lubricant on the Delrin bushings (just for the heck of it). Didn't help.

Even with a friend pushing down on the drivers front wing, my head next to the wheel, we can't pinpoint where the squeak is coming from.
I hear the squeak when I push down on the fender and some squeaking as the jack raises the tire of the ground. Once the tire is off the ground, no squeaking.
I'm thinking it's either the newly rebuilt shock (which shows no leaking) or possibly the Delrin bushing?

 

[steveg]

Thoughts:

--Suggest use of penetrating graphite, such as Lock Ease, for temporary alleviating the squeak, allowing you to locate it.

--disconnect sway bar to eliminate those bushings.
--If all else fails, support front frame with jackstands and remove the LF wheel and spring. Then you can operate the suspension by hand and maybe locate the squeak more easily.
--suggest saturating the lower inner bushings with the Lock Ease as that is most likely where the squeak comes from. The lower outer bushings are lubed with their own grease fittings.
--upper outer Delrin bushings unlikely to squeak as Delrin supposed to be self-lubricating - but easy enough to lube in any case.
--make sure the tie rod ball joints are greased

FWIW - My lower inner bushings squeaked like crazy, so I installed grease fittings on the pins. However, you could disassemble them and smear the pins with waterproof grease - it should last for years.

See this previous thread:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/showthread.php?109006-Lower-wishbone-bush-replacement

 

[twas_brillig]

I can`t resist: AUSMHLY: does the squeaking change in volume as you move closer to (or further away) from Disneyland. Doug

 

[AUSMHLY]

I can`t resist: AUSMHLY: does the squeaking change in volume as you move closer to (or further away) from Disneyland. Doug

Sorry, ?

 

[Randy Forbes]

I can`t resist: AUSMHLY: does the squeaking change in volume as you move closer to (or further away) from Disneyland. Doug

Sorry, ?

I believe it was a (tongue in cheek) reference to Mickey Mouse...

Steve's got the best idea, with aerosol penetrating graphite spray.

I had made my own offset upper trunnion bushes some decade and a half ago out of UHMW; they were inspected and reinstalled not all that long ago when I fitted the Nadella needle bearings in place of the K/P thrust washers. The only perceptible wear is on the ends of the bushes, not the bore__upon which the bushings pivot, still as tight to drive the pin through as it ever was__and no more lubrication than just a thin smear to ease insertion.

The "inspection" was to upgrade to these; noticeable improvement, and I highly recommend them.

Homemade bushes; the bronze pair were made the same time as the UHMW, and the motivation was to be a back-up if the plastic ones wore out too fast, lol (still in service >15 years later...)!

These have a 1-1/16" hex machined on one (1) end to facilitate making minute adjustments to the camber setting; loosen bolt, rotate, check and repeat as necessary.

Voila!

PS: update on post-OHS reveals that my body is doing great. Yesterday I ran some CAT5 cable through the house's attic, and out to the shop via a "conduit stub" that was put in under a portion of the driveway when the house & shop were built (2012). So physically I'm nearly back up to speed, though I am questioning my mental stability to take on such a project__like what, do I still think I am a spry 57 yo (the age I was when wiring the new shop via the attic)? Ah well, it's done now, and only my calf and thigh muscles are the worse for wear.

 

[AUSMHLY]

Thank you Steve and Randy.
Steve, if that's the issue, it seems like an eazy fix, although I may have to continually use this spray lubricant.
Steve, did you choose Lock Ease specifically or as an example?
I noticed it's 3oz $8.53 vs CRC dry graphite lube 10oz $8.87. Are they the same product?

 

[John Turney]

Welcome back Randy!!

If the lower inner bushings are rubber, they should not be lubed. They should work by flexing, not by rotating.

 

[steveg]

Thank you Steve and Randy.
Steve, if that's the issue, it seems like an eazy fix, although I may have to continually use this spray lubricant.
Steve, did you choose Lock Ease specifically or as an example?
I noticed it's 3oz $8.53 vs CRC dry graphite lube 10oz $8.87. Are they the same product?
View attachment 61946View attachment 61947

Randy - welcome back!

I suggested Lock Ease because it's a penetrant - a volatile solvent flows the graphite into inner recesses. You won't get that with a dry lubricant. There are penetrating motorcycle chain oils that could also work.

Though I have it for my locks, I didn't use the Lock Ease because I took mine apart and installed grease fittings on the pins to lube the poly bushings from the inside out. I'm retired and have time for these projects. When I took the springs out, I could rotate the suspension and hear the groans from the dry bushings. My originals were metal-lined poly from Cape International. I now use the greased, non-lined, poly bushings from Tom's Toys. Pix in the other thread linked above.

Lock Ease is worth having around the house for periodic maintenance of your door locks.