what's going on?

[Nunyas]

I have a Manual Choke conversion on my car (one of the POs installed it before I got the car). It works quite well, but it seems almost out of place for a boarderline modern car, IMO. I've read the water chokes do work and work well when functioning properly. I've also read that they function reliably as long as you keep up with the nomal maintenance of your cooling system.

A thing to keep in mind about the ZS water chokes is you need to press the accelerator to the floor and let it back up before starting the car. This enguages the choke if it's functioning properly. From there, assuming all is well, the car should start as reliably as a manual choked car.

 

[lclark0624]

thanks d. Life's no fun if you don't have some frustration.

I'm going to igmore those marks and just follow paul bunyon's suggestions. There's one thing about putting it together that's not clear on either web page mentioned earlier. I'll line up the grooves on the outer heat mass (the hose connects to this) and the inner part that has the spring in it and then place the plastic gismo over the lever, right? Then I put in the screws without tightening them.

Now, this is my question. Do you turn it clockwise or counter-clockwise until the marks on the heat mass and the choke body line up? My guess is clockwise so that the coils get smaller.

 

[Dozuki]

When the lever that goes into the spring is pushed all the way toward the engine, this is full choke. Standing in front of the car looking at the carb. Looking at the 3rd to last image on Paul's site you can see that the rectangular loop in the spring that catches the lever should align with the mark on the spring body. Now, if the lever is all the way clokwise (away from the engine) you would insert the lever into the 'loop' when replacing the whole water housing and then have to turn slightly counter clockwise. I believe that thes is the case as I think that the pin is spring loaded to go to the unchoked position (away from engine). As I said above, you need to make sure that the 'loop' in the spring lines up with the mark on the spring body. Hope that answers your question. BTW, the spring does NOT need to be wound by hand. It should be in the proper place for reassembly when cold.

-D.

 

[RHWins]

I really hate to suggest that the person who took it for a road-test maybe hot rodded it and blew your head gasket, or worse... but white smoke is coolant in the combustion chamber.

 

[lclark0624]

ok, i did it clockwise when i did it before. i'll go counter. I'm still confused about the spring position.

Here's a weak picture of the spring and heat unit. The heat unit and the spring unit are lined lined up in the picture at about 7 o'clock and the spring loop is at about 3 o'clock. Are you saying the spring loop needs to line up with the afore mentioned lines?

 

[lclark0624]

i'll let you know if this carborator fixes both the lack of power and the white smoke. i've lost no coolant, so let's see.

 

[Guinn]

Water in the combustion chamber turns to STEAM not smoke. That's why it is white. It will even smell like steam. Kinda.

Guinn

 

[DrEntropy]

FWIW: The manual choke conversion is an effective way of reducing the number of "thingies" to give you grief: It's either "on" or "off". Extra coolant hoses/plumbing are excess to requirement and subject to failure. There are enough things on LBC's which are prone to malfunction already incorporated in the original design, so IMHO eliminating later "add-ons" increases the reliability of the car. I try to follow the "K.I.S.S." rule... and Edsel Murphy's ;}

 

[Dozuki]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying the spring loop needs to line up with the afore mentioned lines?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, again, look at the two pictures before the last picture on PaulBunyon's site and you will see how the spring loop and the index (alignment) mark line up.

 

[lclark0624]

here's a better picture of the alignment of the spring loop and the groove lines in the heat mass and spring body. they don't line up as they do in Paul's pics. See next post.

 

[lclark0624]

here's the second pic. i "duct"ed the heat mass/spring body to the carb to show that if the lines are together and the loop is inguaged over the lever, the water hoses will rest against the engine and will burn. the different hose configuration is a real problem for me.

it appears that i should ignore the line on the the spring body and just turn the spring body on the heat mass until the spring loop lines up with the lever and then just line up the line on the heat mass with the line on the choke body?

what do you think?

 

[Dozuki]

There is a bolt going through the housing where the hoses connect. If you loosen that, you should be able to rotate the spring body (part the spring is attached to) on the water housing (what the hoses connect to). This should allow you to reposition the hoses where ever you need. IE it will rotate the index mark on the spring body relative to the water housing. After you get this lined up then you can put the water housing/spring body assembly on the carb with the pin in the spring loop and rotate the whole assembly to line up the mark on that assembly to the mark on the choke body.

 

[lclark0624]

thanks d.

i expect the plastic part will be here tomorrow and i was looking forward to getting it runing. Alas we have to make a flying trip to Fresno, so i won't be able to get this done until Thus. Hopefully all will go erll and we'll all be happy again.

then we can talk about other things like . . . seatbelts.

 

[Adam58]

Hi there!

It sounds like you're having loads of fun! In my youth, I worked on VW's and most of them had electrical chokes.
The bi-metalic spring was heated by a heating coil instead of water but I think the principle was the same. As I recall, a cold spring held the choke closed and as heat heated, it relaxed and allowed the choke plate to open.

Since you live in CA (hopefully, a warm part, can you force the choke into an open (off) position by using a piece of wire or something to hold it here? If it's too cranky to start, plan it out and do it after you're warmed up. Then test drive and at least you will know if un-choking it will make it run lean and clean. If nothing else, it'll give you something to do while you are waiting for your parts to be delivered!


I am a bit concerned that the smoke is white and not black, though. I'm not familiar with the MG water choke as mine have manual ones. Is there any possible failure mode that would allow choke water to enter the carburator? That would resolve both issues with one root cause.

Good luck!

Adam

 

[lclark0624]

thanks adam. I'm really enjoying this puzzle. I wouldn't be if this was our only car, but this is just a toy.

sounds like the heating principle is the same in both cars, just the source of the heating.

Yes, i'm in the banning pass area on the way to palm springs. actually i'm in fresno today and tomorrow and plan to get in a few whacks with the clubs tomorrow and then back to so. cal. for another try with the new part. Your idea sounds like a good one. if the plastic part doesn't come by then, i'll try your suggestion.

i too was concerned about the whate smoke, but when i checked the coolant in the radiator it hadn't showed any drop either time. I don't see any way the water/coolant could enter the carborator system. the hoses run from the engine through the heat mass, which is a sealed unit, and back into the cooling system.

I'm about 90% convienced (via D) that the root cause is the dislodged spring loop. The first inspection of the carborator found the heat mass assembly was loose and could be moved a whole 90%. Definately not right.

Thursday you may not have to wait for my post. You'll probabily hear my expressions of appriciation to Lord. I'll still post my results, though.

 

[lclark0624]

well, not everything works out as you plan.

I got back from Fresno on Wednesday too late to put the bropen plastic part in the choke mechinism so I hit it early Thusday. The first thing I did was strip the head of one of the bolts putting it through the plastic piece. So I went to the hardware store and got some allen head screws the right size (that's all they had.)

After putting the choke spstem together, I started the engine and drove around the block. Still no power. Rats!

I took it all apart and followed Bunyon's directions again, making sure I didn't miss anything. This time it won't start. Double Rats!!

Fiddled most of the day, still wouldn't start.

Friday had to leave early for a meeting in Blythe. What a vacation spot! I really hate the desert. Must have been those Si-Fi films I saw as a child, all shot in the desert.

So does anyone have any good ideas to get this MG on the road?

 

[PAUL161]

Antifreeze; Make sure that you use The GREEN antifreeze and not the new red or orange. Some places will try to sell you the new stuff as it costs about three times as much. The new stuff is being used in new cars and will not mix with the green. I understand that it can possably attack some seals in the system of older cars. Don't know if that's a fact or not.If you want to use the red or orange,(color depends on the manufacturer),then you must flush the system clean of the green antifreeze. I understand that a chemical reaction will take place if they mix and that's not good.

 

[lclark0624]

I agree with both, but will stay with the "green" stuff. I'd also read that the mix doesn't do any harm, it just breaks down the benefits of thye orange stuff.

Since this string is so long, I'll start a new string called "Water choke revisited".