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Warning - Crap Hydraulic hoses

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angelfj1

angelfj1

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<span style="font-style: italic">This post is part of another thread in the Triumph section regarding my change-over to silicone hydraulic fluid . I have re-posted this account here to serve as a caution for anyone who buys hydraulic parts from one of the big three. Look, let me put it this way, I am finally totally disgusted and tired of the absolute garbage being sold to us. I had another incident recently with a bad wheel cylinder. This time I intend to notify the BBB in the respective state and write a letter to their state attorney general's office. When we receive parts that don't fit or have an inferior finish, etc these things can be rationalized, but there are some critical automotive systems e.g. brakes, electrical, certain engine and fuel related components that when defective constitute a real safety risk. </span>

p.s. has anyone noticed the following disclaimer from one of the major suppliers. There is , of course, no mention of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">defective parts or materials</span></span>. I got this in an email acknowledgment of my order.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">XXXXXXXXX</span></span> is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer's responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which XXXXXXXXX cannot provide.</span></span>

Last night I finished the change-over to silicone hydraulic fluid. I finished the brakes at midnight. More on them in a moment. Earlier in the evening I worked on the clutch system – and here is the rest of the story. I was on a business trip this week but managed to get parts placed on order with two of the “big three” LBC suppliers. Considering the trouble I had had with the clutch bleeding process last week, I decided to order a new master, slave, hydraulic hose and SS line. My theory was that all of the components would be new and no single “old” part would jeopardize the reliability of the system. It was necessary to place orders with two suppliers. My preferred supplier did not have the master or slave or hose. They did have the SS line and some other less critical bits I needed. Back-up supplier did have master slave and hose. So between the two suppliers , I had everything covered. I got home about 5pm after traveling most of the day from the Northwest. I was tired but delighted to find two boxes from UPS. Upon opening them I found everything I needed to make the clutch work again and with silicone fluid. I removed the old slave, master, hydraulic hose and hard line and set them aside to be cleaned and inspected later.
I opened the box containing the slave cylinder. This part was wrapped in brown paper with what looked like Hindi writing. I examined the slave inside and out – not bad, they even remembered to use rubber grease on the seals – the drillings and threads for the line fitting and bleeder looked real nice – I chased the threads anyway and mounted the slave – I noticed that the orientation of the mounting ears were such that the line fitting and bleeder would be in nearly the same horizontal plane. This is not ideal. It is better to have the bleeder above the line to facilitate the removal of trapped air bubbles. I mounted the slave and turned my attention to the master – although I thought the casting was rough and ugly, it appeared to be OK – mounted this and moved on to the SS line. The line needed to adjusted quite a bit to get it lined up with the hole in the master – I did this very carefully and moved on to the union and hydraulic hose. The hose looked similar to the original. However, the ferules at each end of the hose where different and I did notice that the red plastic material was stiffer than the original. I proceed in maneuvering the hose into position from above being careful not to bend or kink the . . . . “what was that noise” , Oh you dirty no good $%$^&*!!!!!! I don't believe it -
clutch_hydraulic_hose.jpg

PIECE OF CRAP HYDRAULIC HOSE

Now, I want everyone to realize that I did not abuse this hose. I needed to bend it slightly so get the threads on the union started(which connects the hose to the SS line) So fortunately the original hose was OK, and I got this part of the job finished. I ended up with a very good firm clutch pedal. But Tuesday morning, I will be making a call and burning someone a new bung. I am really disgusted and tired of the absolute crap that is being supplied. Even if this hose had not broken at the ferule ( and I am grateful it did) it might have AFTER it was installed. Then what? No clutch?
I knew something was wrong when I noticed just how stiff that plastic was - not really flexible. There has to be a better option.

Brakes - I did manage to get the brakes bled but I am not satisfied with the feel of the pedal. Each time I step on the brakes now, I have to pump them a bit to get a firm pedal. Does this mean that there is a leak somewhere? I don't see one. Will this situation improve as trapped air leaves the system or must I continue to re-bleed these bloody brakes?






Edited by angelfj (4 seconds ago)
_________________________
FJA
Downingtown, PA
TR3A TS58476LO (under restoration)
TR250 CD1510LO
 
Needing to pump your brakes every time could mean one of two things. First, that there is still air trapped in the system somewhere. Silicone brake fluid is notorious for holding air bubbles suspended in it for a long time. You need to be very gentle when handeling the can, and pouring the fluid. If you get lots of air bubbles in the fluid from pouring or the can being shook, or from rapidly pumping a system that still has air in it before bleeding, those air bubbles can take a loooong time to settle out where you can effectivly bleed them.
Second is that your rear brakes may be out of adjustment. if so, then it takes a pump or so to get them out to the drum where they need to be. then they feel ok if you pump them again immediatly, but if you let them go back to rest for a moment, then you have to pump them all over again.
A leak will give you a pedal that will slowly drop out from under your foot as you hold pressure on the pedal.
Best of luck Guv'na
 
Are you saying that you reinstalled the old hose, which ran DOT3/4 fluid? And now you're using Dot 5 Silicon? That's a very bad situation. the two will not mix and the rubber will not survive. Personally I would not drive the car, and when you replace the hose I would inspect the inside of the slave for "goo" which often results from the two fluids interacting.
 
Get a proper hydraulic hose made up locally. Look up hydraulics in the yellow pages or ask someone who works with excavating equipment, they use and repair lots of hydraulic hoses. There should be lots of shops who make up hoses for industrial users.

That thing doesn't look like it was up to surviving the pressure anyway.
 
If you don't have a good shop, I can give you a recommendation assuming you don't mind mailing it. They do all the hoses for my cars.
 
Steve: No. Let me clarify. There really wasn't anything wrong with the original hose. It is the correct red "nylon" material (not rubber) which is quite flexible. I just wanted to replace everything just in case I continued to have problems bleeding the system. Since the master and slave are both new they have never been in contact with anything but DOT 5 silicone fluid. The clutch system bled nicely and the pedal is very firm. I'm just upset with the defective hose!
 
Agree with the advice above; find the nearest Parker Hannafin location; they'll either make up whatever you need or send you to someone who can.
 
Our local heavy truck/ industrial supply store is the place for that. I once had them make me a fuel line for a 57 Bentley with British standard fittings. They had the parts in stock, as B.S. fittings are still commonly found on industrial machenery.
I had the stunned owners Bently back on the road in hours (instead of the month he was expecting to be looking for parts).
that still makes me smile to think about it.
 
angelfj said:
p.s. has anyone noticed the following disclaimer from one of the major suppliers. There is , of course, no mention of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">defective parts or materials</span></span>. I got this in an email acknowledgment of my order.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">XXXXXXXXX</span></span> is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer's responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which XXXXXXXXX cannot provide.</span></span>
Click to expand...

I wonder if that is that same supplier that required agreeing to that or a similar statement to enter a contest? I chose not to.
 
angelfj said:
Tom: I don't know about the contest. However, I have a bone to pick with them tomorrow morning. fja
Click to expand...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hey! Is this a big secret who they are?</span> If there's a bone to pick, spit it out! <span style="text-decoration: underline">Let us know who it is and what's it about.</span> Might save someone else some aggravation, then again, it might not effect us at all. Just because one person has a problem with a company or their product, doesn't mean we all do. But we would like to know who it is your talking about! Some of us are not into guessing games.
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Paul:

Forum rules here require that we do not publicly bash vendors.

There's lots of good reasons for that.

FJA is just following our rules.

You can PM him and ask the name of the vendor privately (as can anyone else). There is no restriction about comments on vendors in private messages here....just public ones.
 
:iagree:

Of course, if you want do-it-yourself research use Google to search for a block of the text quoted.

Searching for (including the quotation marks to get the exact sequence of words):

"is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products."

Might prove fruitful.

I regularly do this sort of thing to see if my students have plagarised from on-line sources....


Does this break the rules... or just bend them a lot? :devilgrin:
 
JamesWilson said:
:iagree:

Of course, if you want do-it-yourself research use Google to search for a block of the text quoted.

Does this break the rules... or just bend them a lot? :devilgrin:
Click to expand...

In my view, it counts as a mild bend, if that. You are not revealing who the vendor is, just suggesting an alternative means of finding out. It's not like that information isn't readily available for anyone to read for themselves. You didn't give the man a fish, you taught him how to fish! :angel:

A question for you, James........ If a student has written something that has been previously published, either in print or on the internet (such as a blog, etc) not connected with study, and then goes and pulls his own work, word-for-word for use in a paper later, do you consider that plagarism? Assuming that the material is relevant to the requirements of the paper, of course.

Merely curious.
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That certainly would not constitute plagarism if credit were given to the source!
 
Steve's question is one that is getting more and more attention in graduate schools these days (since so many people "blog" their own research).

Generally, it is safer to cite your own work, but students have to be careful not to seem pompous if they do so. It's probably best to ask the instructor what they prefer in this matter.

I require students to give me electronic copies of written papers and some lab reports. And I always tell them that I want this so that I can paste sections of their work into Google. Just the threat of this seems to keep everyone honest (I think). :yesnod:

Our school also uses ~THIS Service~ to check for plagiarism (although I do not use it personally).
 
aeronca65t said:
Paul:

Forum rules here require that we do not publicly bash vendors.

There's lots of good reasons for that.

FJA is just following our rules.

You can PM him and ask the name of the vendor privately (as can anyone else). There is no restriction about comments on vendors in private messages here....just public ones.
Click to expand...

OK,
sorry.gif
Didn't mean to stir the pot or break the rules.
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