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TR2/3/3A Vin TS for the car.

sp53

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I have most of a 1958 tr3. I have the TS number for the engine TS 37845, transmission TS 37923 , and differential TS 37999. However, I do not have the Vin TS for the car. I was thinking if I send out for a Heritage Certification with what I have they might send me the Vin number with the certification. My guess is the Vin is probably TS 378**-- anyone have any idea if my idea might work? Or a better plan to figure out the vin or get closer to the number, so the Heritage people might do some easy research?
 

TomMull

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TS378** would be likely, IMO, but that doesn't do you much good. As far as I know the Heritage people don't use engine numbers as identifiers. Perhaps with the engine and body number but I assume you do not have that either. There is a contact here:
https://vintagetriumphregister.org/trace-certs/
Tom
 
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Not going to do you much good in Washington State.
Without a VIN tag the State Patrol cannot even assign a new number. You have to go through the certified letters to last know owner (by VIN!) three times, retain unopened letters when returned, to show the State patrol.
I have never heard of anyone actually licensing a vehicle in Washington with no VIN tag.

While the heritage folks might be of some use, IF the engine/trans/diff have never been changed, there is the difficulty of convincing the State of the validity of the data.

I know a guy who bought two 1956 Cadillacs, bad, rusty...no idea what he was intending to do with them....must have been 40 years ago. Shop I worked in, customer had a vintage Limo service with 56 Caddys, hit a dog, exploded the grille....no, won't sell parts.

Then the state went to "cradle to grave" tracking, even WITH VIN tags, 15 years ago cost him $300 per car to go through the process to get them re-tagged just so he could have them hauled to the scrapper. Scrappers (legal ones) won't touch a car without paperwork.

Are you thinking get some kind of number and make a tag? Without title, you have to go through the process, letters, WSP, re-tag....and there used to be a "hold" period of like 6 months before you could sell it.
 
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Addendum: So, if someone, someplace, snagged the VIN tag to legalize another vehicle.....and you somehow find the correct VIN for your vehicle, and license it.....and someone in the DMV later discovers two TR3's with that VIN.....gonna be interesting.

I knew a guy in the Jag Club, National level, who posted once about the Jags showing up on oh, XK data and shows...with VIN tags, with numbers, exactly the same as the VIN tags (with titles) he had in his shop from rusty hulks too far gone to even contemplate fixing.

There is the issue with dummying up a VIN tag.
 
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sp53

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No body tag number, but the last Heritage Certification I received for a vehicle come back with the engine number on the paper work. My thoughts are if I get close enough and they are computerized with their vins they might cross reference from motor to vehicle VIN.
 

CJD

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Give Heritage a try. They will return your money if they can't match it.

Having 2 Triumph VIN's is a possibility, but I wouldn't sweat it. Each state keeps separate records, so the cars would have to be registered in the same state to cause a conflict.
 

Geo Hahn

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My vague recollection is that BMIHT will do a search by engine number for an additional fee. It has been a few years since I read that on thier site, but possibly still true. I think there may be a more manual aspect to the research, hence the additional fee.
 

Graham H

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British heritage were able to give me all the details from the engine number so you shouldn't have any problems there

Graham
 
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None of youse guys have experienced The State Of Washington's draconian process. OP is gonna find out.
Probably depends on which State he obtained the vehicle, and what he intends to do.
If he dragged it out of a barn in Washington, and a PO snagged the title and VIN plate to legalize what he had (stolen, lost title, whatever) then they're gonna see two VIN's in the state. May not be right away, sometimes up to a year for some clown in the DMV to compare transactions.

I spelled out the process for lost title (unless the OP actually owned the vehicle and had it titled/licensed in his name in the State he now lives in) involving three certified letters to the last known registered owner.
Now you have the issue of who snagged the original VIN tag, and did they license the car...and what state....and who is getting the letters?

The State Patrol will come out (for a fee) or you haul the carcass to them, they inspect, read the returned letters, place a new stick-on VIN tag, and off ya go. Can't sell it for what, six months?

Now, knowing President Inslee, all that can change at any time, or may have changed multiple times since I went through this last time.

Nobody checks cross-state? I think that's a violation of Federal Law. Last line, this is where if the person who snagged the VIN tag had a car running and licensed....and wrapped it around a tree...and the car is listed Federally as scrapped....who knows? I don't want the FBI banging on my door at 0200

"On October 25, 1992, President George H.W. Bush signed the Anti Car Theft Act, which he called “absolutely critical if we are to strike back against auto thieves…”
The act calls for the creation and use of the NMVTIS to stop title fraud; vehicle export inspections to look for stolen vehicles; stiffer penalties for car thieves and chop shop operators; and made carjacking a federal crime.
The U.S. Department of Justice took over the motor vehicle database system in 1996. States send title information for automobiles, trucks, and motorcycles over a certain age to the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA). AAMVA is the administrator of the NMVTIS system.
NMVTIS protects consumers from fraud and unsafe vehicles and helps keep stolen vehicles from being resold.
In addition to most states reporting their title information to AAMVA, auto recyclers, junk yards, salvage yards, insurance companies, and towing operators that take possession of junk/salvage vehicles, must submit monthly reports to NMVTIS."
 

6TTR3A

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"British heritage were able to give me all the details from the engine number so you shouldn't have any problems there. Graham"

Good news from Graham'
But
In late 1958 the engine numbers were running at least 450 ahead of the Comm. numbers
because
Morgan had been buying TR Sport engines for their Plus four models since 1956.

I would be suspicious of an engine number that is within 130 of the tranny and diff numbers.
I only have one record of a British Heritage certificate with both numbers listed. Not enough for a solid
conclusion, but the engine number was 700+ ahead of the Comm number. (Early 1959 )
Draw your own conclusion.

If you actually have the engine number that you listed and want to invest in a Certificate
using that number, I'll bet the Comm. number will be TS 373XX L
30 years ago, this would have been an easy fix, but no more.
Frank
 

Graham H

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That sounds about right Frank,my engine number is TS/58018-E and the chassis number they came up with is TS/57849 build date 24 August 1959

Graham
 

Jim_Stevens

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That sounds about right Frank,my engine number is TS/58018-E and the chassis number they came up with is TS/57849 build date 24 August 1959

Graham

I fear I’m in the same boat... and now believe my car was misrepresented. Title says 44743E, which I assumed 20 years ago was a typo for 44743L and an easy fix with the DMV, the comm number plate being TS44743L.

Well, the DMV rejected that fix, and BMHT came back with a Comm number based on the engine number (which is in fact 44743E) a few hundred off my so-stated comm number.

After several thou in bodywork and a flawless paint job, I think the only honorable alternative is to apply for an “assigned VIN”

Jim
TS 44743 whatever
 

Geo Hahn

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I fear I’m in the same boat... and now believe my car was misrepresented. Title says 44743E... I think the only honorable alternative is to apply for an “assigned VIN”

I don't see why. Can't you just leave it titled with the engine number and put on a correct commission plate now that you know the original number?

If I were a buyer a car that was titled using an engine number 60 years ago wouldn't bother me as that was a far from unknown practice back in the day.
 

Jim_Stevens

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Hmmmmm. Are you suggesting a new comm plate w the engine number? Certainly, the DMV wouldn’t know the difference—and the car is by no means ever going to be original again — a new RATCO frame.
This might be the way out of this mess.
 

CJD

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My TR2 is and always has been titled by engine number since it was new here in Texas.
 

glemon

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My Healey was titled by body number. On an in state transaction in my state they don't inspect the car, and since pre-standardized VIN the DMV doesn't know the difference.

SP didn't say if he is looking for the number for registration purposes, or just to have complete information/history on the car.
 

Jim_Stevens

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My TR2 is and always has been titled by engine number since it was new here in Texas.
Oh, well THATs interesting!
So, maybe not a crisis, although we are moving to NC next year (currently in VA)
 

Jim_Stevens

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Just to close out the thread, that’s exactly what I did, although I had to go to BMIHT twice. Their current policy is to not issue a build certificate based just on the engine number. Fraud prevention they stated. But thankfully Mike Ellis on the TR Register Forum has access to the factory documents, and was able to match the comm number from the body number, and that matched the Sebring White w Black interior that was on the car prior to restoration. So, armed with that, I re-applied to BMIHT, which just came back with the right body, car, and engine numbers!
Long-winded story, but Thanks Geo and John for setting me down the right path— Now, we’ll see if the North Carolina DOT accepts a car VIN based on the engine#...
 
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