TR6 TR6 won't start

[Bob_TR6]

Phil-

My '73 had a piece of jumper wire installed (It did look like a hack) when I bought it.

(I'm running a Ford EDIS system right now, though).

You could incorporate the wire into the loom. I think, looking at the wiring diagrams, you could just stick it on the same terminal of the fuse block that the white wire from the ignition runs to--that's about what the '72 did. Can't hurt to make a jumper with spades on each end and try--if it works, you can pretty it up later.

Best of luck, and let us know, hey?

 

[poolboy]

Would this be considered "hacky" ?

 

[Phil73]

Nope, that looks pretty clean. I'm going to take a closer look at the wiring down by the starter tonight to see how things might have been working before the solenoid got replaced and if that doesn't pan out I'll run something from the fuse block and try to incorporate it into the loom itself.

The hard and frustrating part was figuring out what was wrong. Now that I have that out of the way I can find a nice/clean way to solve the problem.

 

[jtcurtis]

Jeff - what year is your TR6. 1974 by chance?

Hey,
No it's a 71. Jasmin with factory wire wheels.
Ok, I jumpered a lead to the coil from the battery and it ran.
I was not able to find the NY wires at the ignition. According to the manual there are NW and W wires that seem to be the primary wires that would affect ignition. But I may be missing something.
I tried to take the ignition switch apart but could not figure out how to do that. But then again perhaps I am going after the wrong thing. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[jtcurtis]

Thanks,
It is great to find you guys. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to find a forum that people actually occupy. I think I have found a new home. You all seem very active on the forum.

 

[Bob_TR6]

jtc:

My info shows that there are only three terminals on the ignition switch that are used. 1) has 2 NW wires, 2)has a WR wire, and 3) has 3 W wires. So far so good?

One of the NW wires should always be hot--it's coming from one side of the ammeter. The other NW looks to go to (provide power to) Headlamps, and some other light loads.

The WR wire should run to the solenoid, and provide power only when cranking.

That leaves the 3 W wires--that provide power only when the ign is switched on--one of them provides the ALT excitation, one provides brake warning and low oil pressure, and one provides the 12V to your coil, via a double connection on the fuse panel. (the W wire goes to the fuse panel, and then runs to the coil--the coil isn't fused.)

So---all you are doing is jumping power from +12 to the coil, and then the car cranks and starts...?

Does the low oil pressure lamp light? When the key is on, engine not running? If the oil pressure lamp lights when the key is on, and the engine isn't running, then you know that the ign switch works.

Also, if your fuel gauge works{Key on/engine off}(the fuel gauge is on the fuse side of the double white wire connection to the fuse panel) then your problem exists between the white wire at the fuse panel, and the coil.

 

[TR3driver]

To bypass just the switch itself, you'll need to connect a jumper between the brown and white wires at the switch.

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot that 71 still had an ammeter, so you need to jumper between the brown/white and white at the switch (after removing the other jumper of course). If it still runs, I'd call that sufficient evidence that the switch itself is bad.

Sorry, I can't really help with how the switch comes apart from the lock. Generally there is a pin you depress (or in some cases drive out) through a hole in the side, then the cylinder pulls out through the front. Hopefully someone else will pitch in with better details.

 

[jtcurtis]

I don't think the oil light came on until after I jumpered the coil. When I check it out today I will observe the oil lamp and fuel gage.
I'm thinking the switch is bad, but will determine for sure using your approach. Yesterday I could not figure out how to remove the ignition assembly from the steering column. Its tight and dark and presbyopia doesn't help. I'm in there with a flashlight and two pair of reading glasses, twisting like a pretzel. Not a pretty sight.
Thanks

 

[jtcurtis]

Sorry, I can't really help with how the switch comes apart from the lock. Generally there is a pin you depress (or in some cases drive out) through a hole in the side, then the cylinder pulls out through the front. Hopefully someone else will pitch in with better details.

I don't think the 71 has a solenoid either. Is that correct? I'm going to check things out using Bob's toubleshooting instructions and go from there. If it is the ignition, hopefully someone else will be able to chime in how to dismantle/replace it.

Thanks for your input.
Jeff

 

[Andrew Mace]

Yesterday I could not figure out how to remove the ignition assembly from the steering column.

I vaguely recall there being one tiny little Phillips (or Posi-Drive) head screw holding the switch to the back of the column lock assembly, but perhaps others with better, fresher memories will confirm or deny that. :wink:

 

[TR3driver]

Did 71 TR6 have a column lock then? If so, I agree with Andy. You'll need to pull the plastic cover off first to expose the tiny screw on the side (according to my Bentley).

But the TRF catalog seems to show a TR4-style lock on the dash, https://www.zeni.net/trf/TR6greenbook/index.php?page=23
in which case you just unscrew the bezel and push the switch out the back.

For 71, the starter solenoid is integrated with the starter motor. It's that big lump on top, with the wires connected to it.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Column locks started on "Federal" Triumphs in the 1970 model year!

 

[TR3driver]

I sit corrected !

 

[jtcurtis]

With electrical diagram in hand and Bobs guidance on paper, I traced out all the wires to inspect the connections point. I found the NW wire on the back of the amp meter that goes to the ignition sw(I think it supplies power to the switch) disconnected. All excited I tried to start the car, but still had the same problem. However, if I hold the key up with my finger and to the left a little while in the on position I can get the a engine to run. As long as I hold the key up (which helps it make a connection) everything works fine. I repeated the process several times.
So, how do I get the ignition switch off the column to replace it.
Any takers?
Should I pull on the plastic piece to get it off so I can see in there? Is there a special way to do that? I can feel a clamp that goes around the steering column, but I don't think there is access to the top of the clamp.....kinda not sure how to proceed from here.

Thanks for all your help so far.

Jeff

 

[Bob_TR6]

jtcurtis:

The manual I have says:
"Removing
1. Isolate the battery
2. Disconnect the switch harness at the five-pin harness plug
3. Remove the small screw securing the switch to the steering-column lock and remove the switch"

No pix, unfortunately.

However, ignition switch at TRF
seems to make it evident?

 

[mrv8q]

Hello, Jeff, on my '74 there's a very small/short phillips head screw holding the ignition switch assembly together. On your earlier car, perhaps you can unscrew that small screw and separate the two. You might try cleaning the contacts and see if that helps before ordering a new switch.

ISTR MOSS sells each side of the switch.

If you need to get to the Federal bolts, you'll need to remove the tach/speedo to gain easier access to them.....

Have fun!

 

[jtcurtis]

jtcurtis:

The manual I have says:
"Removing
1. Isolate the battery
2. Disconnect the switch harness at the five-pin harness plug
3. Remove the small screw securing the switch to the steering-column lock and remove the switch"

No pix, unfortunately.

Dang, no pics. I like pics too. My harness has been replaced not to long ago, so I wonder if there is some differences. So far all the colors and connections have been correct. I didn't see a harness plug either. I'll look more closely. Maybe if I use a small mirror to see what kind of head is on the securing screw I can disassemble it. I wonder if I order a switch if it has installation instructions. I'll call TRF and see what they suggest too.
Almost there, found the problem which is half the battle.......

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[jtcurtis]

Did 71 TR6 have a column lock then? If so, I agree with Andy. You'll need to pull the plastic cover off first to expose the tiny screw on the side (according to my Bentley).
For 71, the starter solenoid is integrated with the starter motor. It's that big lump on top, with the wires connected to it.

According to TRF's Green book there is a small set screw that hold the switch assembly in. Not sure if the picture is representing what I have in my 71. But will check it out tomorrow. It also says the steering lock is a torq screw. I'll have to get a mirror to be able to determine that.

I figured the lump on the starter is what they are referring to as a solenoid. All is looking good there.

Thanks

Jeff

 

[jtcurtis]

Hello, Jeff, on my '74 there's a very small/short phillips head screw holding the ignition switch assembly together. On your earlier car, perhaps you can unscrew that small screw and separate the two. You might try cleaning the contacts and see if that helps before ordering a new switch.

ISTR MOSS sells each side of the switch.

If you need to get to the Federal bolts, you'll need to remove the tach/speedo to gain easier access to them.....

Have fun!

Thanks,
I saw that on the TRF site too. I'm going to check it out tomorrow. Keep you posted.

Thanks all!!

 

[mrv8q]

My harness has been replaced not to long ago, so I wonder if there is some differences. So far all the colors and connections have been correct. I didn't see a harness plug either.

The front main harness plug should be under the driver's side kick panel...