TR2/3/3A TR3 Bodywork and Repaint

[ckeithjordan]

My TR3 was frame-off restored by the PO in 1986-87. He stripped bare the body, priming it with aircraft primer (he was an American Airlines mechanic) and then painted it with PPG Ditzler Duracryl acrylic lacquer in Signal Red. It was then clear coated. The current status of the color and finish is quite good, as the car was stored for most of the thirty years prior to my purchase in 2017.

Keeping it the same color, I need to repair some unwanted mirror holes, scrapes, dings, and bubbling and can either have it done, or learn to fix and paint it myself. Assuming I have the right equipment, how hard would it be to do touch up work with a current paint (which one?), notwithstanding the whole matching-the-color challenge, particularly with a clear coat involved?

On the subject of body work, how difficult is it weld/close half-inch holes (where the mirrors and luggage racks were mounted) and flatten the front edge of the bonnet so it conforms to the curve of the apron? Right now, it's bowed a bit more and allows air underneath that front edge (good for cooling, bad for having the bonnet flying up unexpectedly). The rear edges, where it curves to conform to the scuttle curve, would also need to be "reshaped." Turn it over to a professional or give it a go? What's the worst that can happen (with the understanding that you don't know anything about my skill level and or aptitude for learning to do this)?

 

[charleyf]

Keith,
i will assume that your skill level is beginner , as are mine. First I would say the repairs that you mention are counter productive to maintaining the existing paint. Welding the holes closed is easy. But it will destroy your paint for some distance around each hole. I find it best for my skill level to make a "plug" and weld it in place. Just yesterday I worked to "recurve" the bonnet to match the apron. My bonnet was about 3/8" below the apron. I just took it slow and bent it by hand with props to hold the bonnet. But I have no paint on the bonnet. I would be concerned of cracking your paint by bending the bonnet.
As an alternative to welding the holes closed, you might consider using a chrome button that fits into the holes. Especially any hole 1/2" in size.

 

[ckeithjordan]

Thanks for the advice, Charley.

I didn't do a good job of organizing my questions. With regards to the repairs, my main concern is the difficulty of welding the holes shut, etc., recognizing that kind of work will damage the paint. Once done, though, how difficult is it to respray those areas (again, notwithstanding the separate issue of paint matching)? The third, but related question, is how difficult is it to reshape panels (how far do you go) before you risk paint cracking, etc., then having to repair the paint?

Back to the holes, right now I have red-painted vinyl blanking grommet (buttons), which do a good job of disguise, but I'd like to eliminate them. I recognize that four holes in the boot lid will require a respray of the entire panel. Hopefully the others only require an isolated respray.

Thanks again for the comments.

 

[CJD]

Alright, I recognize some questions in the second post!

Any bending risks cracking 30 year old paint. It really comes down to how thick it was sprayed. If thin, it has less chance of cracking than a thick spray.

A repaint will run about $1k in supplies if you do it yourself. If you farm it out, expect about $6k. You can pay less in each case, but you get what you pay for. A good job kept indoors should last 30+ years. A $200 Maaco job will start to look bad within 6 months, whether you keep the car indoors or out.

Planning to spray touch-up over a 30 year paint job is not practical. You will not be able to match the amount of fade, even if you knew the exact mix from original. You can do it, but every touch up spot will show distinctly.

Your welding job is not hard. The "blubbing" in the paint you mention is almost certainly rust.

I personally would recommend taking the car to a body shop and getting a free estimate for the work you are wanting.

 

[ckeithjordan]

Thanks, John, those answers are kinda what I expected. I appreciate the candor, particularly from someone who’s “been there, done that.”

There’s a good body shop here in the KC area that’s done work on TR3s. I will be talking to them.

 

[sp53]

John and others taught me a great deal about body work. Prior to that, I had restored a few tr3s by taking them to bare metal and having them painted, and they would take 3 years of hard work each.

When I finally tried the body work stuff it was enjoyable, interesting, and painful—like life. But that is what makes life interesting and rewarding—“the Lunatic Fringe.” Usually in life you get what you pay for is found to be an accurate saying, but body work is the exception to that rule--- you might pay and pay and pay and get crap—the words “Cash Cow” have their origin at an the auto body shop. Not necessarily because of the BS, but the job is that difficult to do correctly.

So Macys did a mechanical restoration on your car with no body work or paint?

I would suggest taking some pictures of the paint bubbles. I would bet they are at the bottom of the front fenders and B post . You might be able to adjust the hood down some by taking some shims out of the Dzus base fitting on the body tub and lower the rubber adjuster to get the hood below air flow at least for now and have the air go over the top of the hood.

steve

 

[ckeithjordan]

So Macys did a mechanical restoration on your car with no body work or paint?

I would suggest taking some pictures of the paint bubbles. I would bet they are at the bottom of the front fenders and B post.

steve

Thanks for the comments, Steve. I agree that bodywork (and body shops) are the "great unknown" when restoring our cars.

With respect to the Macy's question, yes they did a drivetrain rebuild for me, plus some other mechanical items. I asked Mark Macy at what point does a rebuild become a full-blown restoration and he said when body work is involved. They no longer do "frame-on" restorations, and I wasn't looking to do a frame-off. Mark also said that was a wise decision since they would have had to "undo" a lot of work on a nice driver. My impression was they really don't want to do body work unless it's part of a total restoration. That said, I'm very happy with their work. The car looks great overall, the paint is nice and shiny, but there are some body issues, mainly the left-front fender with the bend/buckle, and the 8 holes in the body work (from mirrors and a luggage rack). I can certainly live with minor dings and scratches, even some surface rust in the boot. The fender, no. I have to deal with that at some point.

The front fenders and B posts are good. The bubbling is actually along the rear of the right front fender at the beading in front of the door and the left rear fender panel behind the wheel well. Photo one is the left rear fender; photo two is the front of the bonnet/hood where it meets the apron; photo three is the bent left front fender and; photo four is the bubbling along the top rear of the right front fender.

I'd like to be able to correct the items in a discreet/distinct manner, but as John (CJD) suggests, it's probably better to do respray of all the external panels. We shall see.

 

[CJD]

Looks like a great 20 footer! I'd just drive it until you decide "it's time" to do the bodywork. I can tell from the pics that it will be pretty extensive once you get started on it. So best to have fun until you are ready for many months in the shop...

 

[ckeithjordan]

Sniff! Gee, I think it looks pretty darn good at 10 feet! :sorrow:

I am doing just as you say, driving it in spite of the dings and scrapes (and holes) and enjoying immensely. Driving a 62 year old "new" car is an amazing experience.

Both body work and interior are on the to-do list, but neither are urgent, particularly in terms of drivability/enjoyment. I very well may redo the interior first, then tend to the body work. I just don't want to let that fender get worse...

 

[sp53]

Yes for sure drive it; you could probably find some rubber plugs to pop in the holes. Leave them black or find a red permanent marker and stain them. Lowering the hood down should not be a big deal if you are concerned about the hood flying off and there many hoods that have flown off tr3s because of the Dzus system and not getting them latched correctly—But yea drive drive-- plus having a driver that way you will not have to baby sit the car.
steve

 

[ckeithjordan]

I do have rubber plugs in the holes, painted with red vinyl paint. They're fairly invisible, but they're there.

I'm not that concerned about the hood, it was more of a joke, but it would be nice to have it better match the apron.

Thanks again to all for the advice and comments. It's much appreciated.

 

[mgf]

...how difficult is it weld/close half-inch holes (where the mirrors and luggage racks were mounted)

Is re-mounting mirrors & a luggage rack an option?

Just a thot!

mgf

 

[charleyf]

As I stated earlier in this post, I have found it easiest to make a piece of metal that will fit in the hole and weld it in place. Using the same thickness metal, once you have it in place you only have to weld the edges. As stated in another post the "thin-ness" of the metal makes big welds difficult. This way you only have to do a spot on the edges of the plug.

 

[ckeithjordan]

True, but I took them off because I didn't like them! The buttons are vinyl and painted the same red as the body. To a large degree, they're invisible.

Today, I visited a body shop in Topeka where the owner is also a TR3 and TR-4 owner and several of the local club members have had their cars "done" by him. He does good work. A full-body respray, with fixing all that's wrong, would be north of $10K. Not an option for me. To fix and paint the left front fender (bend and buckle), left rear fender (rust bubbling underneath the paint) and reshaping the hood along with fixing various rust areas along the edges and the Dzus holes is a more-doable $2K. I can live with the rest. As CJD says, "a great 20 footer!" I'm OK with that (I personally think it's a great 10 footer!).

 

[ckeithjordan]

Thanks, Charley. That is something to consider if I decide to fix the holes permanently.

As I stated earlier in this post, I have found it easiest to make a piece of metal that will fit in the hole and weld it in place. Using the same thickness metal, once you have it in place you only have to weld the edges. As stated in another post the "thin-ness" of the metal makes big welds difficult. This way you only have to do a spot on the edges of the plug.

Thanks, Charley. That is something to consider if I decide to fix the holes permanently. The body shop I visited today noted that the boot lid holes would need welding on both side (outer/inner) because the holes go through the cross-bracing underneath.