• The Roadster Factory Recovery Fund - Friends, as you may have heard, The Roadster Factory, a respected British Car Parts business in PA, suffered a total loss in a fire on Christmas Day. Read about it, discuss or ask questions >> HERE. The Triumph Register of America is sponsoring a fund raiser to help TRF get back on their feet. If you can help, vist >> their GoFundMe page.
  • Hey there Guest!
    If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource, if you appreciate not having ads pop up all over the place and you want to ensure we can stay online - Please consider supporting with an "optional" low-cost annual subscription.
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this UGLY banner)
Tips
Tips

TR2/3/3A TR3 blown head gasket?

Lukens

Jedi Warrior
Offline
Last Friday my TR3 started puffing white smoke. By the time I got her home she was plenty hot (maybe 250+) and putting out a pretty good smoke screen. I pulled the head and was a little disappointed NOT to find an obvious rupture in the gasket. I can tell from the piston that #2 cylinder was definitely the problem, but only a little "wrinkling" on the side of the gasket near the water passage hole. I was expecting more.
I see no visible sign of a crack in the head. The head remains dead flat... no warpage.
Is the gasket the problem? I sure hope so.
Russ
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Photos might help. But from that description, I don't even see why you suspected a blown head gasket and not say, low on water (maybe from a slow leak some place) or a water pump failure. That said, I have had gaskets that leaked just a little bit and were not obviously defective when removed. Usually though, there is at least some discoloration at the leak.

Before you put it back together, be sure to check the liner protrusion on both sides. Two engines in a row now, I've found that the protrusion is out of spec only on one side; and both engines had head gasket problems.
 

LarryK

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
Did you try a compression test first? Or a cylinder leak-down test? That little wrinkle can do the job.
 
OP
Lukens

Lukens

Jedi Warrior
Offline
IMG_2157.jpg

Radiator was full when I first noticed smoke.
Compression 150 all around.
Best I could check liner interference is 4-5 thousandths
 

Jerry

Darth Vader
Gold
Country flag
Offline
I had 2 blown head gaskets on my old TR3. We did a pressure test and decided that it was essentially the same as above, iE: the sleaves were not protuding enough. After a blown head gasket, I suggest that you replace the figure eight gaskets. The water vapor increases pressure and flattens them out.

Jerry
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
So the puffs of "white smoke" were coming out of the tailpipe?

That gasket does look funny, but I don't see where water was getting into the combustion chamber. Did you look all around the edges of the combustion chamber openings for any holes?

My experience has always been that the first thing a leaking head gasket does is start blowing water out through the radiator overflow (when the leak is between coolant and cylinder, of course), since when a cylinder fires the pressure inside the cylinder is much higher than in the water jacket. Which leads me to ask how you knew the radiator was full?
 

TR4nut

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
A buddy of mine in my local club recently had the same experience and symptoms with his 3A. White smoke, temp pegging. Nothing blowing out the radiator though. Jury is still out on the cause, but the lead suspect is the gasket after pulling the head and inspecting. In his case the engine was a pretty fresh rebuild - after about 6 months of driving he was surprised to find the head torque was quite low (around 80 ft lb or so) compared to the factory of 100-105. Perhaps in his case not re-torquing after 500 miles didn't provide enough clamping pressure on the head which lead to his problem.
 
OP
Lukens

Lukens

Jedi Warrior
Offline
Which leads me to ask how you knew the radiator was full?

I hear you. Actually I was basing my statement that the radiator was full, on the fact that the temp was normal for the car (185ish) when I first saw the smoke. By the time I got her home she was low on water and steaming out the exhaust on acceleration. But not belching out the radiator fill.
I'm waiting for a stud set then I'll put it together.
Question: Seam side of copper gasket against head or block?
 

HarryL

Jedi Trainee
Offline
I would think if it was the figure 8's you would have water in the oil ?
Noticed that it was said the head was crack tested and there was no warpage. Has the head had any work done to it ?
My 2 cents would be to make sure everything is clean & bright before replacing the head gasket.
Making sure it fits on the liner tops correctly. Fill the rad, run it up to temp; watching the rad overflow.
I had one engine (14.5 compression) where I had to neel(sp) the copper gasket; finally gave Cometic a call
and solved the problem.
Good Luck,
Harry
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
I don't think so. In all the times I've overheated TR engines (including things like limping home without a water pump pulley), and/or blown head gaskets; I have never had a problem with the figure 8 gaskets. Unlike the head gasket, they are solid steel (or copper) and only have to seal against the cooling system pressure. (knock on wood)

Of course Jerry's experience may be different.
 

sp53

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Yea cracked head, head gasket, cracked sleeve any of that stuff you would have had to pull the head anyway. I usually look at the oil in the water and water in the oil when I think head gasket or major mixing going on. I have had cracked heads with no water in the oil as the water was going out the tail pipe, so have that check by an expert.
 

mrv8q

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
- after about 6 months of driving he was surprised to find the head torque was quite low (around 80 ft lb or so) compared to the factory of 100-105. Perhaps in his case not re-torquing after 500 miles didn't provide enough clamping pressure on the head which lead to his problem.

How often should one check the head torque? Until reading this post, I've never thought of it. Of course, I'm not dealing with a rebuilt engine. Didn't see anything in the owner's manual.
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Workshop manual says to do it after the first 500 miles; the owner's manual says to do it again at the first 1000 miles (look under "Running Adjustments")

My experience has been that it's not necessary after that; but it certainly can't hurt to recheck later if you want. I'd wait until getting ready to check the valve lash though, since you have to remove the rocker shaft.
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
BTW, Russ, while you've got the head off, try spinning a new 1/2-20 nut down each of the head studs. If it binds about 2/3 of the way down, the threads on that stud are probably distorted and the stud should be replaced. Running a die down them to clean up the threads is not a good idea.

Also make sure the hardened flat washers under the head nuts are present and in good shape. People sometimes substitute common hardware store washers, which can crush under the load and cause the studs to lose tension. And even the original factory washers wear down after enough on/off cycles.

I like to install the head gasket smooth side down, as mentioned in the early editions of the owner's manual. But I'm not convinced it actually makes any difference; that information does not appear in the later manuals and the gasket was modified to allow installing it either way. Just seems to me that the folded edges of the gasket might be more secure against the larger surface of the head.

I hesitate to mention this, as it's strictly a kludge and perhaps not appropriate for you since all your liners stand up as they should. But on my TR3 engines where the liners don't stand up far enough, I've been tack soldering a ring of 26 AWG "half hard" bare copper wire around each cylinder, just outside of the folded edge of the head gasket.



I have not had a single head gasket problem since I've started doing this, even on the engine in my (now wrecked) TR3A that used to always start leaking within 3 months of a new gasket. I even reused one of the gaskets, and it still held the second time. YMMV

PS, don't forget to follow the tightening sequence in the manual, and tighten the nuts down in stages. I like to go to about 50-60 ftlb the first time, then about 85, then the final 100 ftlb.
 
Last edited:
OP
Lukens

Lukens

Jedi Warrior
Offline
I've got a new stud set on the way. Some of the washers I found under my nuts were spring type lock washers. One of the long studs wasn't down all the way. I don't have a pulley tap long enough to get down to the threads so I've ground a notch on the lead of the old stud and I'll run it in and out of the tapped hole to clean it up.
I've seen the wire trick somewhere else... good idea. I think I'll have to see a few more failures before I try it.
I've searched for a particular tightening sequence and haven't found one. I assume I can work from the center out on a staggering pattern?
Lastly, do you lube the nuts, threads, washers?
 

HarryL

Jedi Trainee
Offline
I've never put in head bolts nor connecting rod bolts together dry. ARP set comes with their own lube. If you're
using the standard set, I've always used some 30wt. oil. As mentioned before get the correct washers.
There should be a torque sequence in the manual somewhere.
Harry
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Got_All_4 TR2/3/3A Blown head gasket TR3 what to do next? Triumph 16
mctriumph For Sale front apron 57 Tr3 Triumph Classifieds 0
R TR2/3/3A TR3 rack and pinion kit problem... Triumph 13
S TR2/3/3A differential hubs early tr3 and tr2 Triumph 22
S TR2/3/3A Tr2 and early tr3 differential. Triumph 10
71TR6 TR2/3/3A TR3 WIper Wheel box Triumph 2
RonC General TR TR3 Shifter on TR6 Triumph 8
jfarris TR2/3/3A Modern Temporary Donut Spare for a TR3 Triumph 1
G TR2/3/3A What color is my car? TR3 1958 Triumph 16
S TR2/3/3A Rebuilding a tr3 transmission and second gear, Triumph 57
mctriumph For Sale Odd bit for Tr3 and early 3A Triumph Classifieds 0
S TR2/3/3A turn a tr3 non-full syncro transmission into a full syncro Triumph 3
Y TR2/3/3A I cannot get my TR3 in correct timing. Triumph 7
mctriumph TR2/3/3A Safety mods every Tr3 should get Triumph 12
Editor_Reid TR2/3/3A Whitewall Tires for TR3 Triumph 11
curdy TR2/3/3A TR3 Stalling Issues Triumph 8
S TR2/3/3A Anyone cut out the spare tire compartment on a tr3? Triumph 4
S TR2/3/3A put a differential back into a tr3. Triumph 2
S TR2/3/3A tr3 breather pipe Triumph 2
2 For Sale 1957 Triumph TR3 Small Mouth Triumph Classifieds 0
Jim_Stevens TR6 Barn find of TR6 and many TR3 parts Triumph 9
J For Sale 1958 TR3 Partout Triumph Classifieds 12
R For Sale TR3 Dash Triumph Classifieds 0
D TR2/3/3A Thread and size for tr3 fuel tank vapor line fitting Triumph 0
S TR2/3/3A Aluminum door capping for tr3 Triumph 12
tinman58 TR2/3/3A TR3 at Mammoth Lakes Triumph 4
G TR2/3/3A TR3 starter disassembly rebuild early M428G bomb Triumph 6
luke44 TR2/3/3A Calling all Wiring experts TR3 Overdrive Wiring ver A or ver B or are they the same? Triumph 8
A TR2/3/3A VERY wobbly TR3 - help needed!!!! Triumph 53
vpanza TR2/3/3A EARLY TR3 hubs for wire wheel????? Triumph 5
vpanza Wanted TR3 FRONT backplates needed Triumph Classifieds 2
mctriumph For Sale Cluster gears Tr3 Triumph Classifieds 0
T TR2/3/3A TR3 pistons and liners Triumph 14
jfarris Wanted TR3 Luggage Rack Turnbuckles Triumph Classifieds 0
K TR2/3/3A Further question re TR3 red ignition light. Triumph 1
G For Sale 1960 TR3 A Triumph Classifieds 0
S TR2/3/3A Tr3 pics. Triumph 8
P TR2/3/3A TR3 Clutch Bleeding Problem Triumph 10
Joel Lester TR2/3/3A Finished my TR3! Thanks to you guys... check it out! Triumph 22
Bocaray TR2/3/3A TR3 Wheel Lug Nuts Size? Triumph 2
jfarris For Sale TR3 Stock Fan used (1956) Triumph Classifieds 0
jfarris For Sale TR3 Rear Sway Bar Triumph Classifieds 0
jfarris For Sale TR3 Speedometer SOLD Triumph Classifieds 3
S TR2/3/3A My tr3 was stuck in reverse after a short drive Triumph 3
G For Sale NEW PHOTOS: Triumph TR3 Chassis Frame + Front Suspension, Fits TR2,TR3,TR3A,TR3B Triumph Classifieds 1
luke44 TR2/3/3A TR3 not engaging 2nd gear Triumph 24
R TR2/3/3A TR3 Wiper motor Triumph 10
H For Sale TR3 RHD tonneau cover nee Triumph Classifieds 0
J TR2/3/3A TR3 Soft top speed limit? Triumph 9
5 TR2/3/3A TR3 fender patch panel question Triumph 10

Similar threads

Top