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Spitfire Towing a Spitfire
- Thread starter JPrisbe
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I don't think so, no, so long as the rear tires are good!
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Perhaps this all begs the question of what you will be using as a tow vehicle? No argument from me that putting a car on the trailer will be much less stressful for the car being towed, but the lightest possible car trailer is going to add a good half-ton or so to the total load being pulled. That's no big deal for a Ford F-350 dualie with a diesel motor and a tow package, but for a stock Toyota Camry with a hitch it could be a problem!
Back to the dolly: it occurs to me that you would want to make sure that the front of the Spitfire will fit well onto the dolly and NOT raise the front too much so as to cause any possible problems with something on the rear of the Spitfire dragging.
Back to the dolly: it occurs to me that you would want to make sure that the front of the Spitfire will fit well onto the dolly and NOT raise the front too much so as to cause any possible problems with something on the rear of the Spitfire dragging.
guzzul
Jedi Warrior
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Yes, you should disconnect the drive shaft. The drive shaft will turn the output shaft of the transmission if you don't, and I would be concerned about lack of lubrication in the transmission.
If you have enough clearance (that is if you can push the drive shaft forward enough to allow the differential flange to turn freely) you could get away with just disconnecting the differential side oif the drive shaft (four bolts). As long as you have enough clearance, and if you can get at the flange without having to drop the tailpipe. If you have to drop the tailpipe, you might as well just pull out the drive shaft and throw it in the boot.
Be sure to mark both the drive shaft flange(s) and the differential/transmission flange(s) so that you can re-assemble them with the same bolt-holes aligned. If you get them 180 degrees out you may find some drive shaft vibration after reassembling.
An alternative I have heard of is to tow the car with the back wheels on the dolly, and front wheels trailing (i.e. backwards). As long as you can tie down the steering wheel so the front wheels are not permitted to 'steer', and will stay straight, this could work too.
If you have enough clearance (that is if you can push the drive shaft forward enough to allow the differential flange to turn freely) you could get away with just disconnecting the differential side oif the drive shaft (four bolts). As long as you have enough clearance, and if you can get at the flange without having to drop the tailpipe. If you have to drop the tailpipe, you might as well just pull out the drive shaft and throw it in the boot.
Be sure to mark both the drive shaft flange(s) and the differential/transmission flange(s) so that you can re-assemble them with the same bolt-holes aligned. If you get them 180 degrees out you may find some drive shaft vibration after reassembling.
An alternative I have heard of is to tow the car with the back wheels on the dolly, and front wheels trailing (i.e. backwards). As long as you can tie down the steering wheel so the front wheels are not permitted to 'steer', and will stay straight, this could work too.
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[ QUOTE ]
An alternative I have heard of is to tow the car with the back wheels on the dolly, and front wheels trailing (i.e. backwards). As long as you can tie down the steering wheel so the front wheels are not permitted to 'steer', and will stay straight, this could work too.
[/ QUOTE ]Please note that this is NOT a good idea if the car is equipped with knockoff wire wheels! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
An alternative I have heard of is to tow the car with the back wheels on the dolly, and front wheels trailing (i.e. backwards). As long as you can tie down the steering wheel so the front wheels are not permitted to 'steer', and will stay straight, this could work too.
[/ QUOTE ]Please note that this is NOT a good idea if the car is equipped with knockoff wire wheels! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Thanks for the info. I have to tow it with a Jimmy so the flat bed at UHaul is out of the question (too much weight). I was planning on renting a tow dolly from UHaul to tow it home with. The spitfire has new tires (no wire wheels) so I'm not worried about those. I thought about putting it on rear first and tying off the steering wheel. I have ratcheting straps that I could secure the steering wheel with but is there a good spot in the cockpit to secure them?
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I'd still prefer towing with the front on the dolly. I'd go the other way 'round only as a last resort (i.e., a seized differential or broken rear suspension).
foxtrapper
Jedi Trainee
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Ratchet straps from the steering wheel out the sides and down to the chassis make excellent steering wheel locks. With the steering wheel in the straight ahead position, lock on a vertical spoke at the 6 oclock position or so. It's much more rigid than trying to hold the steering wheel from the ends (3 and 9 oclock).
You can tow rear tires down for many a mile without transmission damage. No hard and fast number. My comfort level limits it to about 200 miles, but that's just as arbitrary as saying 50 miles.
You can tow rear tires down for many a mile without transmission damage. No hard and fast number. My comfort level limits it to about 200 miles, but that's just as arbitrary as saying 50 miles.
YankeeTR
Luke Skywalker
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I've towed many different makes of cars many thousands of miles with a tow dolly in the last 15 years or so. That includes three of my TR-3's.
There is no need to disconnect the driveshaft on any RWD car with a manual transmission. You CAN tow a car with an automatic transmission short distances (50 miles) without damage but need to disconnect the d'shaft for longer distances.
Last April I towed a '48 Plymouth from Austin, TX to central Wisconsin. Last month I towed a Model A Ford from Illinois to my home. And within the last two weeks I towed two TR-3's from Kentucky to Wisconsin. I towed my last TR-3 to many events in the central US with my tow dolly.
I've had about ten cars on my dolly this year and towed all with virtually no problems.
One thing you DO NOT want to do is tow a car backwards on a dolly. The weight MUST be up front or you will have serious problems keeping the towed car from swaying wildly from lane to lane.
IF you rent a dolly from U-Haul you must LIE to them about the car you are hauling. First, they will not have a listing for a Spitfire..and if it's not in the computer they will not rent to you.
Tell them you are towing a Geo Metro or any other SMALL econo-box. They go by the weight of the tow vehicle compared to the weight of the dolly and towed vehicle. IF it's too heavy they will not rent to you.
Last year I bought a '98 F-150 and a '95 Lincoln Continental out of state. I tried to rent a U-haul dolly to tow the Lincoln behind the F-150..not big enough. So I went to another U-haul location and told them I was towing a Geo Metro...bingo!
Good luck...
There is no need to disconnect the driveshaft on any RWD car with a manual transmission. You CAN tow a car with an automatic transmission short distances (50 miles) without damage but need to disconnect the d'shaft for longer distances.
Last April I towed a '48 Plymouth from Austin, TX to central Wisconsin. Last month I towed a Model A Ford from Illinois to my home. And within the last two weeks I towed two TR-3's from Kentucky to Wisconsin. I towed my last TR-3 to many events in the central US with my tow dolly.
I've had about ten cars on my dolly this year and towed all with virtually no problems.
One thing you DO NOT want to do is tow a car backwards on a dolly. The weight MUST be up front or you will have serious problems keeping the towed car from swaying wildly from lane to lane.
IF you rent a dolly from U-Haul you must LIE to them about the car you are hauling. First, they will not have a listing for a Spitfire..and if it's not in the computer they will not rent to you.
Tell them you are towing a Geo Metro or any other SMALL econo-box. They go by the weight of the tow vehicle compared to the weight of the dolly and towed vehicle. IF it's too heavy they will not rent to you.
Last year I bought a '98 F-150 and a '95 Lincoln Continental out of state. I tried to rent a U-haul dolly to tow the Lincoln behind the F-150..not big enough. So I went to another U-haul location and told them I was towing a Geo Metro...bingo!
Good luck...
foxtrapper
Jedi Trainee
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Making a blanket statement that there is never any need to disconnect the driveshaft on a rwd car is overstating it, by more than just a little bit. Fact is, the output shaft of the transmission is spinning. Problem is, it's getting no oil. The oil normally gets pumped by the input shaft and lay gears, which are not turning.
Now the output shaft is not under any load, and there is some residual oil up there in the bearings, so you're ok...for a while. Exactly how long that while is, that varies.
Having towed dollied cars backwards many times, built trailers and hitches, and a number of other interesting towing things, I can say with confidence, knowledge and experience that it's hogwash that a tail-up car on a dolly is going to sway wildly. It will not sway at all. It is no more prone to swaying than the trailer of a semi-rig. There are many things that cause sway, towing a car tail up isn't one of them.
U-haul does not have the Spitfire (or any Triumph) in their database, but that does not present a problem. They do have the MG Midget and such. Most of their local rental folk understand little british sportscar. They are less understanding of overloading the tow vehicle these days though. Overloading your tow vehicle is stupid, dangerous, and illegal.
Now the output shaft is not under any load, and there is some residual oil up there in the bearings, so you're ok...for a while. Exactly how long that while is, that varies.
Having towed dollied cars backwards many times, built trailers and hitches, and a number of other interesting towing things, I can say with confidence, knowledge and experience that it's hogwash that a tail-up car on a dolly is going to sway wildly. It will not sway at all. It is no more prone to swaying than the trailer of a semi-rig. There are many things that cause sway, towing a car tail up isn't one of them.
U-haul does not have the Spitfire (or any Triumph) in their database, but that does not present a problem. They do have the MG Midget and such. Most of their local rental folk understand little british sportscar. They are less understanding of overloading the tow vehicle these days though. Overloading your tow vehicle is stupid, dangerous, and illegal.
YankeeTR
Luke Skywalker
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Foxtrapper,
A manual transmission in a RWD car gets sufficient lubrication because the input shaft and the cluster gears (lay gears) are always in contact..even when in neutral. The cluster will splash up more than enough lube to keep everything from being damaged.
Just to be sure, I just went out to my shop and took the covers off of a MOPAR 833 4 speed and a Ford toploader 4 speed just to check...go tear one down and you'll see..
The Uhaul towing guide sez...NEVER tow a vehicle backwards!
The Ford "A" I towed home recently had a bad wheel and studs on the L/R wheel. I tried to tow it backwards but didn't make it one block before it started to sway so badly it took up both side of the street! I unloaded it, replaced the wheel and bad wheel studs and put it on correctly...70 MPH all the way home (160 miles).
Now IF you are towing a car minus the engine, all bets are off.
And you never load a semi trailer real heavy at the rear...4 1/2 million miles of experience in big trucks tells me a different story.
Finally, you've got some well educated UHaul guys around your area...I've had them tell me I had a real cute dune buggy (MGB)...
Here's the official UHaul towing guide....
https://www.uhaul.com/guide/userguide-towdolly.pdf
A manual transmission in a RWD car gets sufficient lubrication because the input shaft and the cluster gears (lay gears) are always in contact..even when in neutral. The cluster will splash up more than enough lube to keep everything from being damaged.
Just to be sure, I just went out to my shop and took the covers off of a MOPAR 833 4 speed and a Ford toploader 4 speed just to check...go tear one down and you'll see..
The Uhaul towing guide sez...NEVER tow a vehicle backwards!
The Ford "A" I towed home recently had a bad wheel and studs on the L/R wheel. I tried to tow it backwards but didn't make it one block before it started to sway so badly it took up both side of the street! I unloaded it, replaced the wheel and bad wheel studs and put it on correctly...70 MPH all the way home (160 miles).
Now IF you are towing a car minus the engine, all bets are off.
And you never load a semi trailer real heavy at the rear...4 1/2 million miles of experience in big trucks tells me a different story.
Finally, you've got some well educated UHaul guys around your area...I've had them tell me I had a real cute dune buggy (MGB)...
Here's the official UHaul towing guide....
https://www.uhaul.com/guide/userguide-towdolly.pdf
[ QUOTE ]
IF you rent a dolly from U-Haul you must LIE to them about the car you are hauling. First, they will not have a listing for a Spitfire..and if it's not in the computer they will not rent to you.
Good luck...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you are right. I had to tell them it was an MG Midget and it took that!!! HA
I also had better luck and cheaper getting it online.
IF you rent a dolly from U-Haul you must LIE to them about the car you are hauling. First, they will not have a listing for a Spitfire..and if it's not in the computer they will not rent to you.
Good luck...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you are right. I had to tell them it was an MG Midget and it took that!!! HA
I also had better luck and cheaper getting it online.
D
DougF
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Before renting, I would take measurements to make sure the wheelbase is wide enough to fit on a dolly. It was fairly tight on the TR6.
YankeeTR
On a spitfire trans, yes the input and cluster (lay ) gears and output gears are always in mesh. So far you are right.
HOWEVER, the input, cluster and output gears ONLY move when the engine is turning them. The cluster won't splash anything. On fact, in this case, the engine will be holding them locked in place.
What will happen is that the main shaft will spin around inside the non moving output gears. As the oil works its way out, eventually, the bushings will be damaged.
Actually, towing the car without the engine would be easier, then you could leave the trans in gear and it would keep itself lubricated. Of course since the gearbox is held in place by the engine, this is only theoretical.
A different solution to the problem would be to overfill the gearbox with oil so that the main shaft is coated with oil. Since the cluster is not spinning there won't be a problem with the oil churning up and creating excess pressure which normally would blow the seals. Just dump the excess before driving. As long as the oil level up to the main shaft level, it will remain lubed and safe. This is MUCH easier than disconecting the drive shaft!
Yisrael
On a spitfire trans, yes the input and cluster (lay ) gears and output gears are always in mesh. So far you are right.
HOWEVER, the input, cluster and output gears ONLY move when the engine is turning them. The cluster won't splash anything. On fact, in this case, the engine will be holding them locked in place.
What will happen is that the main shaft will spin around inside the non moving output gears. As the oil works its way out, eventually, the bushings will be damaged.
Actually, towing the car without the engine would be easier, then you could leave the trans in gear and it would keep itself lubricated. Of course since the gearbox is held in place by the engine, this is only theoretical.
A different solution to the problem would be to overfill the gearbox with oil so that the main shaft is coated with oil. Since the cluster is not spinning there won't be a problem with the oil churning up and creating excess pressure which normally would blow the seals. Just dump the excess before driving. As long as the oil level up to the main shaft level, it will remain lubed and safe. This is MUCH easier than disconecting the drive shaft!
Yisrael